Author Topic: James Campbell & Elspeth McGrigor - 1790 - Logierait  (Read 3646 times)

Offline moo

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James Campbell & Elspeth McGrigor - 1790 - Logierait
« on: Friday 07 October 16 17:27 BST (UK) »
Good Evening

I have recently discovered James Campbell married Elspeth McGrigor ( later known as Elizabeth McGreggor ) on 4th June 1790. I have found 5 children from the marriage.
09.09.1791 James
01.05.1793 John (my line, he married Janet Turnball abt 1823, I have yet to confirm this date and find where, they had 2 children Elizabeth and William).
12.02.1796 Alexander
03.12.1797 Charles
06.09.1799 Jannet.

I am wondering / hoping someone may be able to provide any further information regarding this family.

Many Thanks in advance

Moo

Offline McGroger

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Re: James Campbell & Elspeth McGrigor - 1790 - Logierait
« Reply #1 on: Monday 17 October 16 01:37 BST (UK) »
Gíday Moo,

In addition to your 5 children to James and Elspet there are:
Robert, born 24 August, bpt. 6 September 1801;
Margaret, born 11 May 1803, bpt. 15 May 1803; and
Jean, born 27 June 1805, bpt. 14 July 1805. All in Logierait parish and all have Elspet as Elizabeth Macgrigor.

And there is also a marriage banns entry of 29 May 1790 in Dunkeld parish, indicating that one (James or Elspet) came from Logierait parish and one from Dunkeld & Dowally parish.
 
Now, because Jean was the third daughter and wasnít given her motherís name, it probably means that Janet (1799) died between the births of Margaret (1803) and Jean (1805). (Janet/Jean were interchangeable.)

Working from the Scottish naming pattern, since Jamesís first son was James, it would normally mean Jamesís father was another James. And the second daughter was Margaret, so Jamesís mother should be Margaret.

There is a James Campbell christened 22 Jun 1760 Dowally, Perthshire to James Campbell and Margt. Mclaughlan who looks like a good candidate.

Elspet McGregorís parents should be John (unless he was another James) and Jean/Janet (after the first daughter) and she should be from Logierait parish.

There is an Elizabeth McGregor christened 10 January 1768 in Kirkmichael parish (Kirkmichael, Logierait, and Dunkeld & Dowally bordered one another) to James McGregor and Jannet Robertson who would be a possibility.

I canít see any marriage between - or children to - a John Campbell and Jean Turnball anywhere. And canít help with the families of the siblings of John (1793). Perhaps knowing where John went after Logierait may give an indication of where some of the others went as well. Migration, interstate or overseas?

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Peter
Convicts: COSIER (1791); LEADBEATER (1791); SINGLETON (& PARKINSON) (1792); STROUD (1793); BARNES (aka SYDNEY) (1800); DAVIS (1804); CLARK (1806); TYLER (1810); COWEN (1818); ADAMS[ON] (1821); SMITH (1827); WHYBURN (1827); HARBORNE (1828).
Commoners: DOUGAN (1844); FORD (1849); JOHNSTON (1850); BEATTIE (& LONG) (1856); BRICKLEY (1883).
Outlaws: MCGREGOR (1883) & ass. clans, Glasgow, Glenquaich, Glenalmond and Glengyle.

Offline Rosinish

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Re: James Campbell & Elspeth McGrigor - 1790 - Logierait
« Reply #2 on: Monday 17 October 16 02:39 BST (UK) »
I would say that the name "Turnball" may be Turnbull?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline moo

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Re: James Campbell & Elspeth McGrigor - 1790 - Logierait
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 20 October 16 19:59 BST (UK) »
Hello McGroger,

Wow thank you so much for the additional children. As far as I can tell at the moment the locations for the son John are : Birth 1793 - Logierat, Married abt 1823 unknown, Died 1874 Linlithgow, Buried St Michael's with his In -laws. His first child, Elizabeth born abt 1824 unknown where, Married 1839 to William Wright, unknown where and died 1856 Fauldhouse Whitburn. His second child was born 1827 Wilsontown, married Agnes Muir 1853 Whitburn and died 1895 Bathgate. If I could find a death for James after 1855, it may help with his parents, and eventually track him down in the 41,51 and possibly 61 census.

Hello Rosinish

I have tried every variation of spelling Turnball on SP.. but nothing, will try again, I am not totally convinced SP is working as well as it used too.

Regards

Moo


Offline moo

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Re: James Campbell & Elspeth McGrigor - 1790 - Logierait
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 22 October 16 18:19 BST (UK) »
Hello Everyone

I think I have found James and Elizabeth in Village Barr Ayrshire 1841 census James aged 70, Elizabeth aged 75, which is 137 miles away from Logierat.
I also believe that I have found granddaughter Elizabeth married surname Wright, 1841 Census gave place of birth as Scotland 1816 .... not much help there. However in the 1851 Census it gives her place of birth as Sanquhar 1814, which is almost 120 miles away from her fathers place of birth Logierat.

In 1770's would this distance be a normal thing to have happened.

Regard
Moo



Offline McGroger

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Re: James Campbell & Elspeth McGrigor - 1790 - Logierait
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 22 October 16 23:16 BST (UK) »
Hi, Moo.

There is a marriage 9 March, 1796 in Barr, Girvan, Ayshire between a James Campbell and Elizabeth Ramsay. This is probably more likely to be the couple in the 1841 census. If James and Elizabeth are not locatable at that time it may simply mean they were deceased by then.

(In case youíre not aware of it, in the 1841 census peopleís ages were rounded down, so someone showing as 70 - i.e. 66-70 on census day - in 1841 would have been born between 1770 and early 1775 - and someone showing as 75 - i.e. 71-75 on the census day - would have been born between 1765 and early 1770. So, James of the census, 1770-1775, or 10-15 years younger than the James born in Logierait.)

If your families in Logierait were affected by the Highland Clearances, the normal result would be that they would have been forced to move to a city to try to find work and/or they might migrate, looking for a better life. In my own family (Glen Quaich, Glen Almond, Glen Gyle) until the middle of the 1800s when they moved to Glasgow - the clearances came late to Loch Tay) there had been no relocation of more than about 20 miles in 500 years. Until the clearances people rarely moved more than one or two glens.)  Of course, there were exceptions.

Looking at the places youíve given, perhaps the majority of the family fled to Edinburgh and surrounds.

Peter
Convicts: COSIER (1791); LEADBEATER (1791); SINGLETON (& PARKINSON) (1792); STROUD (1793); BARNES (aka SYDNEY) (1800); DAVIS (1804); CLARK (1806); TYLER (1810); COWEN (1818); ADAMS[ON] (1821); SMITH (1827); WHYBURN (1827); HARBORNE (1828).
Commoners: DOUGAN (1844); FORD (1849); JOHNSTON (1850); BEATTIE (& LONG) (1856); BRICKLEY (1883).
Outlaws: MCGREGOR (1883) & ass. clans, Glasgow, Glenquaich, Glenalmond and Glengyle.

Offline McGroger

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Re: James Campbell & Elspeth McGrigor - 1790 - Logierait
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 23 October 16 06:34 BST (UK) »
Moo,

Thereís an Elisabeth Campell and William Wright marrying 16 August 1839 in Carnwath, Lanark. Other events youíre after seem a bit elusive!

Cheers,
Peter
Convicts: COSIER (1791); LEADBEATER (1791); SINGLETON (& PARKINSON) (1792); STROUD (1793); BARNES (aka SYDNEY) (1800); DAVIS (1804); CLARK (1806); TYLER (1810); COWEN (1818); ADAMS[ON] (1821); SMITH (1827); WHYBURN (1827); HARBORNE (1828).
Commoners: DOUGAN (1844); FORD (1849); JOHNSTON (1850); BEATTIE (& LONG) (1856); BRICKLEY (1883).
Outlaws: MCGREGOR (1883) & ass. clans, Glasgow, Glenquaich, Glenalmond and Glengyle.

Offline moo

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Re: James Campbell & Elspeth McGrigor - 1790 - Logierait
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 23 October 16 18:37 BST (UK) »
Thank you McGroger, I have downloaded the Banns / Marriage  ;D

I did find a John and Janet in 1841 Census, John aged 48, Jean aged 58, Tomma Brack, Logierait, and then 1861 John aged 68, Jean aged 53, with Jean's mother Sarah Turnball who is a widow, John is a Clerk Distillery,Kirkgate, Linlithgow. 1871 Census John aged 77 Distillery Clerk 9 Cross, Linlithgow. I don't seem to be able to find them in 1851  :-\
John died in 1874 and Jean in 1881.
The family do seem to end up in Dunfermline eventually, but it does take them a good few years to get there, and they do seem to settle and stay. Its the early years I am struggling with.

Ever Hopeful
Moo

Offline moo

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Re: James Campbell & Elspeth McGrigor - 1790 - Logierait
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 23 October 16 19:09 BST (UK) »
Blimey - up and downs lol

Scrap the 1841 census, as I found John as a Widower in the 1851 census in Linlithgow, same job - Distillery Clerk.
This may mean that Jean/Janet Turnball was a second marriage, which could explain why I cant find any births for Elizabeth and William, back to the drawing board.

Moo