Author Topic: But ..what happened to the babies ...?  (Read 11118 times)

Offline brigidmac

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Re: But ..what happened to the babies ...?
« Reply #27 on: Monday 26 December 16 02:42 GMT (UK) »
There were 20 babies altogether

The only adopter named in what I've read so far  is mrs Bell.

Correction mrs Ball....Huge apologies  wrong transcription

  Mrs Ball of Neath who took Lottie's daughter into care early 1907 I hope she got to keep her as she came to court with the baby to show how well she was cared for

The only birth mother named is lily Kitchen of Grimsby who's own mother went to the police to retrieve the 11 which had been handed over with her 14 day old grandson

Did Lily take back her son from the  lincoln family ? and look after him well?

What happened to the babies ?
 I.ll request for these two topics to be merged

Topics merged.
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline brigidmac

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Re: But ..what happened to the babies ...?
« Reply #28 on: Monday 26 December 16 09:06 GMT (UK) »
Have been trying to find Bell families  Neath in 1901 and 1911 with help.


Should have been looking for Ball families !!!

There is a William Bell with second wife Ella   and children plus step children
So one candidate is Elsie Bell aged 5 in 1911 I Neath parish but not Albert row I've been told not seen actual census

Another candidate is Ellen Gertrude b 1907  in margam Neath 1911
This is only valid if the child took on the Bell name
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline brigidmac

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Re: But ..what happened to the babies ...?
« Reply #29 on: Monday 26 December 16 11:28 GMT (UK) »


SUMMARY of  TOWNS babies .Came + went to

A boy close in age to Lottie s baby ie late 1906  b.Swansea.   taken to Bath
I think his mother was Herberts friend whod threatened suicide til they helped her find work

Baby.      born Altrincham              taken to Lincoln

Another       born Lincoln              taken to St pancras

A          st Pancreas baby               went to Sheffield

         Chester                                                    to Halifax

Two other babies were                           taken to Bath

One.                                                 to Mold in


Witness at court case also came from Ollerton       the birth father who was paying maintenance

 Witness from Hammersmith. I think was Mrs Ball who brought baby Jessie with her

s quite a logistics operation Hebert and Lottie were on tour I Dec 1906 as a conjuror and actress

the babies must have disappeared between Jan 1907 and their custody on remand 20th may


They have Bristol based addressin March

settIing in Liverpool where arrested where they were taken to court and imprisoned

Lily Kitchen/ Kitching baby given up at 14 days old was finally found alive and well in Lincoln

Apparently there were 20 babies altogether

Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson


Offline brigidmac

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Re: But ..what happened to the babies ...?
« Reply #30 on: Monday 26 December 16 23:15 GMT (UK) »
The court records seem to be out of chronological order

Found on FindMyPast for Herbert Smith and Lottie Roberts

The warrants were 21 st + 25 th  June 1907

Crimes committed from 16. Th april

And another crime was listed for Dec 1907 when they would both still have been serving hard labour


Yet British  newspapers from may 24 th ewer reporting charges"  of  deception and suspicion of causing death" from may 24 th 1907
This was lily Kitchen/ kitchings baby from Grimsby
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline brigidmac

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Re: But ..what happened to the babies ...?
« Reply #31 on: Tuesday 27 December 16 04:27 GMT (UK) »
Have seen 2 of the original adverts placed in Leeds mercury

Lady without children would like to adopt strong healthy baby
 entire surrender
premium 15

Good home "

The first was on 22 Jan 1907  contact was Jessie Baker 5 Tudor St Cardiff
 Same wording on  30 mar 1907     but            Mrs Isdale Liverpool

Not seen any ads asking for a child to be cared for yet
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline brigidmac

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Re: But ..what happened to the babies ...?
« Reply #32 on: Tuesday 27 December 16 10:05 GMT (UK) »
I've not used credits to open all the news account s

But can see that there are some worrying phrases in British newspapers

May  20th 1907

Charged with having caused death

June 1st

Child traced to workhouse infirmary
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline brigidmac

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Re: But ..what happened to the babies ...?
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 27 December 16 22:48 GMT (UK) »
It was the Grimsby baby that was reported   dead

This child of Lily Kitchen turned up safe and well in Lincoln


I posted specifically about lily kitchen on the Lincolnshire forum 

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=761749.0

clever Cath came up With

 Henry Leighton Kitchen living with his grandparents  Tom and Francis Kitchen  in 1911

As they have a daughter called Lily
This seems most likely

Lily must have registered  her baby when it was returned from all its adventures ...i don't know I he was the one who turned up in a workhouse infirmary according to an Irish newspape

Lily also baptised   .Harry Leighton Kitchen ( FindMyPast.)

My ggrandma registered her daughter before boarding her out in 1900. 
Giving baby the middle name of her birth father

And baptised her with a different middle name 3 months later when child maintenance had been court ordered


Lottie Roberts/Bourn and Herbert Smith registered her child

 Swansea Jessie Smith 19/11/1906

He denied being the father at the trial saying she was already pregnant when they met

But according to Lottie's testament they had been travelling together for several years



Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline brigidmac

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Re: But ..what happened to the babies ...?
« Reply #34 on: Tuesday 27 December 16 23:39 GMT (UK) »
Some development on theCheshire forum too

 Whether The Lottie Roberts  in the news was my great grandma or not ...

Here's WHAT HAPPENED to HER baby

Registered as Jessie Smith born 19/11/1906

Boarded out then unofficially to a childless couple
Who asked to keep her permanently

Brought to court  June 1907 charmingly attired by Mrs Ball

Living with the Balls  1911.  As Jessie Smith aged 4

I hope the other babies had happy outcomes too
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline brigidmac

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Re: But ..what happened to the babies ...?
« Reply #35 on: Friday 06 January 17 02:59 GMT (UK) »
The lady who helped my mum on this research using Ancestry. will be joining my mother and I on the 19th ...So hopefully she can join in the thing up of the loose ends on Lottie's babies ....The others are someone else's brick walls .
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson