the robbs new deer aberdeenshire

[GR2]

I have looked at a newspaper index (I no longer have a subscription to allow me to see the full articles) and there are several references to George Robb as a tailor in Teddington. They cover at least 1903 -1908. One from the Surrey Comet of 10-10-1903 refers to him winning 1st prize and a gold medal for (as it would appear from what the index shows) a "frock coat class 1 for competitor's own use".

[pipsqeak]

hello andy, that’s interesting thankyou, i think my great grandfather, george robb stayed in new deer
as my grandmother was there as a young child around the dates you mention, unless it was
temporary in surrey.

[GR2]

The following people are buried in grave 1050 of section D of New Deer cemetery:

- Christian Mary Robb, Slacks, Cairnbanno, buried 18-7-1895, d. aged 7 days
- George Robb, Maryhill, Greens, buried 29-1-1900, d. aged 1 day
- Allan Robb, 20 high Street, New Deer, buried 14-4-1902, d. aged 14 months
- Elspit Johnston or Robb, Gladston (sic) Terrace, New Deer, buried 16-8-1931, d. aged 77
- George Robb, retired tailor, Kirkbrae Terrace, New Deer, buried 30-7-1932, d. aged 85

[Andy J Robb]

Hello all and thanks for the feedback, my Father James passed a couple of years ago and I've been trying to piece through the many documents I have. James Robb did not know his father and was raised by his grandmother for many years before returning to his mother Mabel at Milton of Inkhorn Auchnagatt.
Mabel later married Alexander Parley and they, my father, his step sister and half brother moved to Australia in 1950. My mother Sheila Leslie moved from Aberdeen two years later in 1952 to join him.

I have the following original certificates here in Australia;

John Robb born in 1871 of Alexander Robb (sailor) and Jane Robb
John Alexander Robb born 1904 of John Robb (carpenter) and Christian Forbes Robb nee Gall
Christian Forbes Gall born 1866 of John Gall (mason) and Mary Robb his wife ()

My father James Robb born 1928 of Mabel Mary Jane Robb (farmers daughter) no father listed.

I also have the marriage certificate of John Robb (joiner) to Christian Forbes Gall in 1903.

I believe Christian was my Fathers grandmother and John (1904) would be Mabel's brother. It's also odd that her parents are listed as father Gall and mother Robb before Christian married into Robb? John Gall and Mary Robb are also listed on Christains marriage certificate as parents. As to the identity of my dads father the trail leads somewhere around Auchnagatt or Ellon.
I would love to hear if you know of these names I've listed and what your understanding might be.
Regards Andy Robb

[Forfarian]

Hi Andy, for  brief moment I wondered if your mother could have been a Sheila Leslie who is in my tree, but the dates don't fit.

One missing piece of your information above is the parentage of Mabel Mary Jane Robb. If you don't have her birth certificate you can download a copy of it at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

I see that she was born in Aberdeen St Machar in 1905. I also see that the 1911 census index lists in St Machar John Robb, 40; Christian Robb, 44; John Alex Robb, 6; and Mabel M J Robb, 5.

There is nothing remarkable about Christian Forbes Gall's mother's maiden surname. Robb is a fairly common surname and there is no reason why John Gall's daughter should not have married a man with the same surname as her mother. They could even have been related before they married.

John Gall and Mary Robb had at least 8 children
Mary Johnston, born 23 December 1864, Aberdeen St Nicholas
Christian Forbes, born 26 November 1866, Aberdeen St Nicholas
John, born 26 November 1866, Aberdeen St Nicholas
Isabella, born 30 May 1869, Aberdeen Old Machar
Margaret, born 1871, Aberdeen Old Machar
Sarah Ann, born 1873, Aberdeen Old Machar
Robert Robb, born 1877, Aberdeen Old Machar
James, born 1880, Aberdeen Old Machar
and there could have been more children born after the 1881 census

The family are in the 1881 census at 2 Westfield Place, Aberdeen
John GALL   M   43    M   Kennethmont, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Head
   Occ:   Master Mason Employing 6 Men
Mary GALL       46    F   Old Deer, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Wife
John GALL       14    M   Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Errand Boy (Seedsman)
Christian F GALL       14    F   Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Daur
   Occ:   Scholar
Margaret GALL       9    F   Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Daur
   Occ:   Scholar
Sarah A GALL       7    F   Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Daur
   Occ:   Scholar
Robert R GALL       4    M   Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
James GALL       5 m   M   Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
So both John Gall and his wife Mary Robb were from rural parts of Aberdeenshire. The 'community contributed' section of the IGI at www.familysearch.org says they were married at Kinnethmont on 18 June 1864. However this not not a trustworthy source so any information from it must be verified from documentary evidence. (The 'community indexed' section is much more reliable)

Presumably you have the names of the parents of John Robb b 1871 from his marriage certificate. How, exactly, does it list his mother's name? Is she simply 'Jane Robb' or is she 'Jane Robb M S Robb' or is she 'Jane Robb M S ....' with another surname where I have put the dots?

I see that John Robb and Jane Robb, maiden surname Robb, were married at Kildrummy on 24 July 1864 and had at least ten children
James, born 17 June 1864
John, born 24 February 1866
Alexander, born 19 October 1867
Jane Helen, born 24 October 1868
Ann, born 20 May 1872
Francis Frederick, born 15 October 1873
David, born 1875
William, born 1876
Harry, born 1878
Helen, born 1880

This family is in the 1881 census at Kildrummy Cottage, Kildrummy
John ROBB   M   42    M   Kildrummy, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Head
   Occ:   Gamekeeper
Jane ROBB   M   38    F   Kildrummy, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Wife
John ROBB   U   15    M   Kildrummy, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Gamekeepers Son
Jane ROBB       12    F   Kildrummy, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Daur
   Occ:   Scholar
Ann ROBB       9    F   Kildrummy, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Daur
   Occ:   Scholar
Francis F ROBB       8    M   Kildrummy, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Scholar
David ROBB       6    M   Kildrummy, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
William ROBB       4    M   Kildrummy, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
Harry ROBB       2    M   Kildrummy, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
Helen ROBB       10 m   F   Kildrummy, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Daur
and there could have been more children born after the 1881 census

You will have noted that this John Robb, son of John Robb and Jane Robb, was born in 1866, not 1871, so he does not quite fit as your John Robb, son of John Robb, sailor.

I am also puzzled why John Robb, a man who at the age of 40 had been a carpenter and had apparently lived all his life in the city of Aberdeen, should by 1928 have become a farmer in Auchnagatt, an area where he does not appear to have had any close connections.

[Forfarian]

On a different tack.

1901 census, 108 Grantham Road, Lambeth, Surrey
George Robb, 31, tailor's manager, born Aberdeenshire
Helen D S Robb, wife, 33, born Aberdeenshire
Helena J H Robb, daughter, 2, born London
George Robb, 7 months, born London

1911 Census
George Robb, 41, Ladies and Gents' tailor, born New Pitsligo, Aberdeenshire
Helen Drummond Robb, 43, born Insch, Aberdeenshire
Helena Jane Henderson Robb, 12
George Alexander Robb, 11
Joan Robb, 7
Margaret Agnes Robb, 5

The GRO web site lists the births of 4 Robb children, mother's maiden surname Sangster, registered in Lambeth
Helena Jane Henderson, 1898, March quarter
George Alexander, 1900, September quarter
Joan, 1904, June quarter
Margaret Agnes, 1905, September quarter

George Robb and Helen Drummond Sangster were married in Inverurie in 1897. Get a copy of that marriage certificate from www.scotlandspeople and it will tell you the full names of both George's and Helen's parents including their mothers' maiden surnames.

Now, some speculation.

George Robb is probably the one born in New Pitsligo on 28 May 1869, parents Alexander Robb and Jane Sheriffs. New Pitsligo is in the parish of Tyrie, and in 1881 there's a family there at 44 High Street
Alexander ROBB   M   44    M   New Deer, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Head
   Occ:   Clothier & Tailor
Jane S ROBB   M   41    F   Old Deer, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Wife
Alexander ROBB       15    M   Old Deer, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Apprentice Tailor
George ROBB       11    M   Tyrie, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Scholar
Mary Jane ROBB       7    F   Tyrie, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Daur
   Occ:   Scholar
John ROBB       9    M   Tyrie, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Scholar
William ROBB       5    M   Tyrie, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Scholar
Elizabeth S. ROBB       3    F   Tyrie, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Daur
Andrew ROBB       1    M   Tyrie, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
So I am fairly confident that 11-year-old George in this census is the one who became the prizewinning tailor. The 1879 marriage certificate will confirm or refute that.

Mary Robb, daughter of Robert Robb and Mary Johnston, was born in New Deer on 29 October 1834. Noting that John Gall and Mary Robb named their first daughter Mary Johnston and their second son Robert Robb, there can be no doubt that this is the wife of John Gall.

Note, now, that Alexander Robb, husband of Jane Sheriffs and probable father of George the tailor, was aged 44 and born in .... New Deer.

Alexander Robb, son of Robert Robb and Mary Johnston, was born in New Deer on 17 March 1837.

If I am correct, then Mary Robb, wife of John Gall, mother of Christian Forbes Gall and grandmother of Mabel Mary Jane Robb,  was the sister of Alexander Robb, husband of Jane Sheriffs and father of George Robb the prizewinning tailor.

You will need to get some original certificates to confirm all this, of course.

[Forfarian]

Another thought. If your 'sailor' is a misreading of 'tailor', and Jane Robb, mother of John Robb, was Jane Robb M S Sheriffs, then that would tie the whole lot together more than just neatly.

I was so curious that I couldn't resist taking a look at the marriage certificate of John Robb and Christian Gall. Extract attached.

John Robb's parents were Alexander Robb, farmer, and Jane Robb, maiden surname Shirreffs. It even notes that John and Christian were cousins german, i.e. first cousins, because John's father and Christian's mother were brother and sister.

It also makes more plausible John and Christian's move out of the city to take up farming at Auchnagatt. 

And George the tailor was their sibling, and therefore Mabel Mary Jane's uncle.

And the Kildrummy family are a red herring.

[flst]

John Gall & Mary Robb married 18th June 1864 in Old Deer. In 1861 John was living at 30 Gerrard Street, Aberdeen. Also boarding there was a 16 year old Robert Gall, apprentice draper,also born in Kennethmont, probably his brother?
I have found the Galls in 1871. No wonder it was difficult to find them! John is down as Thorn Gale . I have put in a correction note on Ancestry. They are at 14 Charles Street, Old Machar, Aberdeen. John, 33, Mary,36, Mary, 6, John & Christian, 4, & Isabella, aged 1. A couple James & Sarah Fraser are boarding there too.
In 1891 they are at 139 Leadside Road, Aberdeen. John, Mary, John & Christian, Sarah, & Robert 14, & James 10. Hope this helps,
flst

[pipsqeak]

hello GR2, thankyou, elspeth and george robb are i think my great grandparents, ive an address, kirkbrae and some dates that match the burial details you presented. their daughter marjorie was my dear grandmother.