John & Elizabeth MANTEL emigrated to Australia after 1885

[johnP-bedford]

Thanks Judith & Sue for that info on Agnes Walker ne Mantell & family. So they came to Brisbane on ship Indus in August 1884. Not sure about John Walker though... could he have died, how do you know he was the one who got married to Ellen Green. 
 

[johnP-bedford]

On 2 July 1885 John Mantell, of full age, widow, Artist in Hair, of Newport Pagnell, father Richard Mantell (deceased) Builder........married... Elizabeth Froggatt, of full age, spinster, of Newport Pagnell, father Benjamin Froggatt (deceased) Gentleman....

Seems she was born Hackney, Middx, baptised 12/8/1829, daughter of Benjamin Froggatt & Anstis Apsey

[sparrett]

Laura was buried at Toowong Cemetery
WALKER   LAURA SARAH MANTELL       
Date of Birth 13-02-1882
Date of Death 02-08-1888
Age   6 Years
   
Others of the surname at  the same location
WALKER ELLEN   06-08-1918
WALKER ELIZABETH OLIVE  31-08-1910

Sue

Hi John
Perhaps I should have been more specific in my use of the term location.
I meant not just the cemetery as the 'same location', but the grave
Location for all three is  -   1-54-13 at the Toowong Cemetery.
https://graves.brisbane.qld.gov.au/

It was this that lead me to look further into who the other two might be. It looks to me as if John chose to bury his other deceased child and Ellen at the same  site  as his first child

Thanks Judith & Sue for that info on Agnes Walker ne Mantell & family. So they came to Brisbane on ship Indus in August 1884. Not sure about John Walker though... could he had died, how doi you know he was the one who got married to Ellen Green. 
 

There were other children to the couple John WALKER and Ellen GREENWOOD.  You can search them yourself.
https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/queryEntry.m?type=births
By the way, we have not used the term married in relation to these two.  Merely stated there was a relationship.
The funeral notice states ‘wife’, but it there is not a law against a claim to marital status where it does not exist, unless there are legal issues involved.
Her death certificate, which can be downloaded after online payment, would give the place and date of a marriage if there was one.
Whatever happened, Agnes returned to using her birth surname.
In short, we cannot be sure we are looking at the right John WALKER, but it seems a likely bet to me.

[judb]

I agree with Sue - it's too much of a coincidence for a John WALKER's child and partner to have been buried in the same grave as John and Agnes' child unless it is the 'real' John WALKER.

Thank you, John, for posting the marriage details for John MANTEL and Elizabeth FROGGATT and the transcription of the asylum entry record. 

Re Agnes - she was still using her married name on the electoral rolls in NZ 1905-1914, calling herself a widow when John was alive at least till 1913 - children born to him and Ellen GREENWOOD:
1914   B37487   John Wesley  WALKER (died 1963, B62864)
1906   B12839   Nellie May WALKER, (married 1938 to Edwin Rufus Gough, B31553)   

Judith

[sparrett]

1914   B37487   John Wesley  WALKER (died 1963, B62864)
1906   B12839   Nellie May WALKER, (married 1938 to Edwin Rufus Gough, B31553)   

Judith

Sad really.
When Edwin Rufus died he and Nellie had only been married a few months.
The marriage was in the last 2 weeks of April 1938 and he died in September 1938 aged 36.
Funeral notice
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/38698039

Perhaps Nellie remarried.

Here is her death.
1974   B56394 Nellie May STEVENSON
Parents John WALKER & Ellen GREENWOOD

Sue

[judb]

Heavens - not much luck in this family.

1841 - I see Elizabeth FROGGATT, 12,  with her parents, Benjamin, an optician, and Anstis, and sibling Samuel  8, in West Square, Southwark.

1851 same family at at 2 Elm Grove, Camberwell (London).  Benjamin is employing 6 men.

In 1861 Elizabeth is boarding on the Isle of Wight, occupation: "british teacher" whatever that means.

I can't see her in later censuses.

In 1871 Benjamin and Anstis are in Isleworth, but I can't see them in 1861.  In 1881 it looks like Benjamin is in Brentford and there is a death registered in that district in 1882.  Probate (1882) was granted to the son Samuel FROGGATT and daughter Elizabeth FROGGATT, spinster, of Optic Villa, Hanworth Rd, Hounslow which is also the address given for Benjamin.

Judith

[johnP-bedford]

Thanks Judith... I had found most of that yesterday...

John Mantell/Elizabeth Froggatt got married at Independant Congregational Church, Newport Pagnell by licence.......witnesses Mary Balshaw (she was wife of James Balshaw the congregational minister who officiated) and Jane Hackett, both lived in Newport Pagnell

Elizabeth Froggatt had a non-conformist baptism on 12/8/1829 at Hackney, Middx, daughter of Benjamin Froggatt who married Anstis Apsey at Clerkenwell in 1828. Her brother Samuel Froggatt also had non-conformist baptism on 19/12/1833 at Lambeth. I've found the family on 1841 & 1851 census, father Benjamin is an optician. In 1861 Elizabeth b 1830 Hackney, single, boarder in Carisbrooke, Isle of Wight, & is British school mistress. I've not found her in 1871 but in 1881 in Paddington is a Elizabeth Froggett age 50 born Middx, London teacher of music, but she's down as married. Mother Anstis died 1878 & father Benjamin died 9 Sept 1882 both in Brentford RD, where his probate calendar entry says 'proved by Samuel Froggatt, son, of Oxford, professor of music & Elizabeth Froggatt, daughter, spinster of Optic villa, Isleworth'.... which is where Benjamin is in 1881. London Electoral Register has entries for Benjamin Froggatt from 1857 to 1880 Isleworth, living at Optic Villa, Hanworth Road, Hounslow.   

John

[sparrett]

  but in 1881 in Paddington is a Elizabeth Froggett age 50 born Middx, London teacher of music, but she's down as married.

John

When I look at the census page it shows.
FROGGETT, Elizabeth.
Married
Born London
Aged 50 (yob -1831)
Visitor

 

[judb]

Here she is in 1871

Elm Grove, Carisbrooke IoW
Elizabeth FROGGATT, 34, Governess and assistant, b Hackney Wick, Middlesex.

She is listed as Head of her household (consisting only of herself) but she is at the same address as a family DAUP/DAMP? where there are four children aged from 6 to 13, so I would think that she is governess for them.

Judith