Author Topic: Patrick Perkins b. 3/3/1917  (Read 2234 times)

Offline avm228

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Re: Patrick Perkins b. 3/3/1917
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 10 January 17 16:38 GMT (UK) »
We are trying to help you find the mother by means of looking for a relevant marriage.  As I said upthread, a birth certificate for March 1917 will not yet be available to you on ScotlandsPeople being not yet 100 years old.

However, you said on the first page that Pierce was not married to Patrick's mother, so - if Patrick was the product of a relationship between Pierce's 1st and 2nd marriages - it may be that there is nothing to be done but to wait for time to elapse for the birth certificate.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Patrick Perkins b. 3/3/1917
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 10 January 17 16:43 GMT (UK) »
Pierce was already married by 1901, according to that census.

First marriage 1897- father listed as Thomas Perkins (clerk) with a John Perkins witness-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1897/10472/5813614.pdf

Father shown as Thomas on Pierce's birth certificate-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03324/2218702.pdf
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Offline aghadowey

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Re: Patrick Perkins b. 3/3/1917
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 10 January 17 16:47 GMT (UK) »
Am I right in thinking that you already know quite a bit about Pierce Perkins? that you don't know the name of Patrick's mother? are you sure that he was the father of Patrick (born 1917) rather than being a relative (perhaps even by marriage)? are you sure Patrick was born in Scotland (Glasgow?) in 1917? or could he have been born in Ireland?
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Offline Perkins1820

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Re: Patrick Perkins b. 3/3/1917
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 10 January 17 21:57 GMT (UK) »
Thanks all. Yes, I know a lot about Pierce Perkins, it's Patrick Perkins that is new to me and where the mystery lies. He is definitely also a son of Pierce Perkins, and not from either of Pierce's marriages. His family believe he was born in Glasgow Scotland on 3/3/17, but we don't know the mother. So my quest is to confirm his birth record and find out the mother.

I have found online (findmypast) a birth record of a Patrick Perkins in 1919, mother Gregory, born in Kent, which is actually where Pierce Perkins had lived, but this Patrick has a middle initial D, whereas my Patrick had a middle initial J. So this is probably a long shot. Nonetheless I will see can I get this full birth cert to see if this may be the one I'm looking for.


Offline avm228

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Re: Patrick Perkins b. 3/3/1917
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 10 January 17 23:41 GMT (UK) »
It looks as though the 1919 registration was made retrospectively in 1921, as Patrick T Perkins (according to the typed GRO index for 1921).  The cross-reference in 1919 has been entered manually and some indexers have interpreted the middle initial as S (erroneously it seems to me - again it looks like a T).

He may be the Patrick Thomas Perkins born 14 Oct 1919 who died in Bury St Edmunds in 2002.

He may or may not be the same child originally registered as Patrick F McFarlane, mmn Gregory, Dec qtr 1919 East Ashford.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Perkins1820

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Re: Patrick Perkins b. 3/3/1917
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 11 January 17 08:13 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for that, that is very useful in that it most likely rules out this Patrick Perkins as an option. My Patrick Perkins died in 1989.

Offline iolaus

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Re: Patrick Perkins b. 3/3/1917
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 11 January 17 08:40 GMT (UK) »
There are two family trees which feature him on Ancestry - neither show a mother and the only fact attached on either is his death, one has him born Glasgow, as you suggested, one Edinburgh (which kind of fits with Pierce being stationed there in the war)

I suspect you may need to wait till the birth records are released - on the plus side that is only two months - but I'd be looking for illegitimate Patrick Johns in those cities.  Can you request Scottish birth certificates with a provisio the way you can English and Welsh? so you say you only want it if he was born 3/3/17. 

I wonder if his mother died in the 1918 flu epidemic and thats why he ended up with dad

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Patrick Perkins b. 3/3/1917
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 11 January 17 09:10 GMT (UK) »
Was Patrick raised by Pierce and his 2nd wife? am wondering who was looking after him between birth (1917) and the 2nd marriage (1921). Also, wondering if 2nd wife's family knew much about Patrick's mother- after all, how would Pierce have explained Patrick?
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Offline Perkins1820

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Re: Patrick Perkins b. 3/3/1917
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 11 January 17 09:33 GMT (UK) »
Pierce brought him back to ireland, to Woodenbridge and Arklow, in Co. Wicklow. At some stage, I assume around the second marriage, Patrick went to live with famy of Pierce's first wife in Tipperary.