Author Topic: ORMIANER surname  (Read 4072 times)

Offline scouser1066

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ORMIANER surname
« on: Thursday 12 January 17 16:46 GMT (UK) »
Hello, I am very pleased to find Rootschat! I am researching my father's early life. His name was Harold (or Harry) Ormianer, born in 1901 in Liverpool. I have got a lot of the usual stuff but I am looking for help with:

1. His life as a musician in 1920s/1930s in the following bands/orchestras - Mirabile Band, Embassy Bohemian Band, Jack Leight's Band. I suspect they are all Liverpool-based. He also played violin on the Elder Dempster ships 'Adda' and Apapa'.

2. Origin of surname - Family (Abraham, Hannah, Samuel and Fanny ORMIANER) came to England circa 1890s and ended up in Liverpool. They were a Jewish family and Abraham became a journeyman glazier.

My research so far suggests their early roots were Armenian and they came from Krakow area.

Any help would be much appreciated!

Thanks

Mike Ormian


Offline avm228

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Re: ORMIANER surname
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 12 January 17 17:09 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat, Mike :)

You say you have "a lot of the usual stuff" but you don't say quite what you have - including census info etc, which is likely to be relevant to your question 2.

Is this the family in 1901?

28 Wellington Rd, Wavertree, Liverpool
RG13/3505/67/22

A Ormianer Head Mar 37 Glazier Austria (Abraham)
H Ormianer Wife Mar 32 Austria (Hannah/Annie)
S Ormianer Son 13 Austria (Samuel)
F Ormianer Daur 11 Austria (Fannie/Frances)
? Ormianer Daur 7 Liverpool (poss Gesela Ormianer b Jun qtr 1894 mmn BRAF - later Gertie/Gertrude)
D Ormianer Son 4 Liverpool (David Ormianer b Dec qtr 1896 mmn BRAFF)
H Ormianer Daur 1 Liverpool (Borana Ormaner b Jun qtr 1899 mmn BRAF - later Ella)

Later births:

Harry Ormiana, Dec qtr 1901 West Derby mmn BRATH
Solomon Ormiana, Dec qtr 1904 West Derby mmn BRAFFE
Rosa Ormeaner, Sep qtr 1907 West Derby mmn BRAF

Birthplace of the older family members again stated as Austria in 1911 free Familysearch index (indexed as Ornianan).
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline heatherjulie

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Re: ORMIANER surname
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 12 January 17 22:35 GMT (UK) »

Offline cath151

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Re: ORMIANER surname
« Reply #3 on: Friday 13 January 17 09:33 GMT (UK) »
Hi,
Welcome to Rootschat.
Name changed to Ormian in later days.
There is a Merchant seaman card for
Harold Ormian born 1903  Liverpool
R16090
Hard to read but looks like first steward and musician
Think its dated 1926
There is a note that looks like "Adda"
Year of birth a bit wrong though.

Cathy
Sinnock/Sinnicks...Brighton,Greenwich.
Clements,Coles,Mc Donagh,Rock

Census InformationCrown Copyright from www.national archives.gov.uk


Offline cath151

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Re: ORMIANER surname
« Reply #4 on: Friday 13 January 17 09:45 GMT (UK) »

Some info on the ship in newspapers and merchant card on FindMyPast
There is free access to Findmypast at the moment.

Cathy
Sinnock/Sinnicks...Brighton,Greenwich.
Clements,Coles,Mc Donagh,Rock

Census InformationCrown Copyright from www.national archives.gov.uk

Offline hanes teulu

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Re: ORMIANER surname
« Reply #5 on: Friday 13 January 17 10:12 GMT (UK) »
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0iwVspsJJ6oC

Search inside for "embassy" - there's a brief mention of the Bohemians and the Embassy Rooms (previously Wellington).
S. Wales, Somerset, Devon - Oxenham

Aberavon - Hopkin/s, Jenkins, Thomas
St. Brides/Wick - Jenkins
Llanblethian -  Price
Abergwynfi -  Han(d)ford
Pontardawe -  Lewis.

Offline scouser1066

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Re: ORMIANER surname
« Reply #6 on: Friday 13 January 17 10:41 GMT (UK) »
Thanks to everybody that responded - some really useful stuff!

The picture is of the Embassy Bohemians in full swing - my father is the violinist.

Thoughts on the origins of the surname would be much appreciated too.

Mike

Offline avm228

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Re: ORMIANER surname
« Reply #7 on: Friday 13 January 17 10:45 GMT (UK) »
In order to help you develop your research on the family's deep origins, Rootschatters will need to know what evidence you already have on that.  The censuses show the immigrant family members as born in Austria.  What evidence have you found for links to Krakow and on to Armenia?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline scouser1066

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Re: ORMIANER surname
« Reply #8 on: Friday 13 January 17 11:25 GMT (UK) »
What I know about my family origins:

Family knowledge is that my grandparents came from Krakow area and were possibly innkeepers. They were certainly devoutly Jewish and came to England but are not on 1891 census but are on 1901 census.

They arrived with two small children and ended up in Liverpool -it is thought they were victims of a scam and were diddled out of tickets to America.

ORMIANER surname suggests an Armenian origin, as an Armenian in the Polish language is Ormianin. It is thought that an 'ER suffix appeared when, in 1787, Jews had to have 'specific family names' which were often chosen for them by civil servants (source): Nelly Weiss: Origin of Jewish Family Names 2002)

There are quite a number of ORMIANER names that come up during my searches but I have never been able to make a direct link to any of them.

I realise it's very little to go on but there may be a Rootschatter out there that has come across a similar situation.

Thanks