Was she Sarah Jane Knight or Salter? Or both??

[bobbyhamster]

Hi there,

I am hoping that you could help me with an issue I am having with a Great Great-Grandmother. As she appears to register her children with a different maiden name after several children. And I am unable to find a birth for either name.

Going backwards in years..

• Passed away on the 26th Aug 1921 - Holbeach District - Sarah Jane Foreman - Aged 76
• Appears as Jenny Foreman in the 1911 Census - St Matthews Holbeach - Aged 59?? - Birth place Lincs Long Sutton - I know this is the right person as I am following Rose Ellen and I have seen their graves.
• Jane Foreman in the 1901 Census - Gedney Marsh Holbeach - Aged 53 - Birth place Long Sutton
• Jane Foreman in the 1891 Census - Sutton St Nicolas Holbeach - Aged 44 - Birth place Long Sutton
• Gives birth to Rose Ellen Foreman in 1888 - Long Sutton - Maiden name Knight
• Gives birth to Fanny Foreman in 1886 - Market Harborough - Maiden name Knight
• Gives birth to Henry Foreman in 1884? - Leicestershire - Unable to find birth this is from the census.
• Jane Foreman in the 1888 Census - Kibworth Leicestershire - Aged 36 - Birth place Long Sutton
• Gives birth to Samuel Foreman in 1878 - Castle Bytham Bourn - Maiden name Knight
• Gives birth to Sarah Ann Foreman in 1876 - Castle Bytham Bourn - Maiden name Knight
• Gives birth to Stephen Foreman in 1874 - Castle Bytham Bourn - Maiden name Salter (Picked up as Stephen Ferman in searches)
• Gives birth to William Foreman in 1872 - Castle Bytham Bourn - Maiden name Salter (Picked up as Forman in searches)
• Sarah Forman in the 1871 Census - Gedney Holbeach - Aged 27 - Birth place Long Sutton
• Gives birth to Matilda Foreman in 1870 - Holbeach Marsh - Maiden name Salter
• Gives birth to John Thomas Foreman in 1869 - Gedney Marsh - Maiden name Salter
• Gives birth to Martha Jane Foreman in 1869 - Gedney Marsh - Maiden name Salter
• Gives birth to James Foreman in 1865? - Long Sutton - Unable to find birth but this is from the census.

I have found a marriage in 1867 in Long Sutton, with a James Forman and a Jane Salter. Father Charles Salter. The only problem I am having is tracing Sarah Jane and Charles before this year to confirm them.

Also I have found a marriage between a Charles Knight and a Sarah Salter in 1845, Long Sutton. Do you think that this could be her parents? However I still find no birth of Sarah Jane.

I have underlined Rose Ellen because she is my Great Grandmother.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you.
Rob

[AMBLY]

Hi Rob,

It rather points to me, of there being two women name Sarah Jane, one ms SALTER and the other ms KNIGHT     and that the latter used the name Jane (Jenny) to separate her from the 1st wife?

Aside from the 1921 death,  does Jane/Jenny have her name recorded at Sarah Jane on any of the children's Births with MMS Knight?

Also, wondering if it's any coincidence , that by 1891 the daughter Matilda age 20, appears in the Census with James and Jane, as Matilda KNIGHT, married, with her own 2 children.

Cheers
AMBLY

[Jomot]

I have found a possible birth, but I'm afraid it only adds more to the confusion.  Long Sutton is in the Holbeach Registration District, and in the earlier census, which are likely to be more accurate, her birth year is c1844.

Searching FreeBMD for a Sarah Jane born Holbeach 1844-1849 brought up this for Jan-Mar 1844:

SALTER  Sarah Jane Salter     Holbeach  14 409
BEDFORD  Sarah Jane Salter     Holbeach  14 409

The GRO Index only has this recorded once, as BEDFORD, with the field for Mother's Maiden Name left blank. This would indicate that her parents were not married but both were named on the certificate, with the father's surname being Salter and the mother's Bedford.

The 1851 census for Long Sutton shows a Mary Jane Salter aged 7 living with her grandparents, Robert & Lavinia Salter, along with another granddaughter, Ann Salter, also aged 7.

Searching FreeBMD brings up these two Oct-Dec 1843 entries on the same page:
SALTER  Mary Ann     Holbeach  14 400   
SISSON Mary Ann     Holbeach  14 400   

Again, the GRO only has this indexed once, under Mary Ann SISSON, with the MMN field blank, but FreeReg has the baptism as Mary Anne SALTER, illegitimate daughter of Jane Salter!  To add to the confusion, however, under the same GRO reference there is an Ann KNIGHT, MMN LISSEN.

Another Salter birth comes up as follows, this time Oct-Dec 1845:
KNIGHT  James     Holbeach  14 454
SALTER  James     Holbeach  14 454

Once again the GRO only has this indexed once, under KNIGHT, with the MMN field blank, although FreeReg has the baptism as James SALTER illegitimate son of Sarah Salter.

If you weren't confused enough beforehand then I'm sure you are now! 

I think perhaps the best place to start would be the birth certificate of Sarah Jane Salter/Bedford to see if that makes anything clearer!

[AMBLY]

Rob,

You have the 1911 Census details?

We can't look up (Rootschat rules) -  But you can you tell us what you know:
How long have James and Jenny been married?
How many children has she birthed  of the marriage?
What is his name recorded as?

You mentioned no Birth record found for son James born 1865. Was he born before marriage:
  James SALTER birth registered Holbeach, Mar Qtr 1865

Is this the parents marriage:
Mar Qtr 1867 - Registered Jun Qtr Holbeach. Two names on same page:
James FORMAN
Jane SALTER

And I'm looking at this marriage, maybe nothing, but....
Mar Qtr 1878 - Registered Jun Qtr Holbeach. Two names on same page:
James FORMAN
Sarah Jane SMITH

Cheers
AMBLY

[bobbyhamster]

Thank you both for your very swift replies.

On the 1911 Census it has...

Married - 40 years
Children - 13
Died - 2
Alive - 11 - This matches what I have

James Smith Foreman - 61 (Even though he passed away 2 years later aged 69 years)
Jenny Foreman - 59 (Even though she passed away 10 years later aged 76)

So years can be questioned.

So far I only have 4 of the 11 childrens birth certificates.
- Rose Ellen 1888 - Jane Foreman formerly Knight
- Sarah Ann 1876 - Sarah Jane Foreman formerly Knight
- Matilda 1870 - Jane Foreman formely Salter
- John Thomas 1869 - Jane Foreman formely Salter

I am still waiting on the birth certificates of 1886 Fanny, 1878 Samuel, 1874 Stephen, 1872 William and 1869 Martha Jane. So I can not confirm if the full name is on those certificates.

In the 1871 Census she is down as Sarah.

The 1867 marriage is what I have found also, it is just the change in maiden name that puts me off thinking that it could be them.

Following Matilda Knight from the 1891 census, causes more confusion. This is because she is living with a Mr John French in the 1901 census. 1911 census comes and she has more children under the name of Knight while still living with Mr French. In the 1939 census Matilda Knight and John French are still living together, this time Matilda's name goes back to Foreman (Widowed). However when Matilda passes away in 1949, she is back to Knight again. - Possible using mothers maiden name to save face?

Thanks again,
Rob

[Jomot]

This looks like it could be the missing Henry:

FOREMAN, GEORGE  HENRY    MMN: KNIGHT   
GRO Reference: 1883  M Quarter in MARKET HARBOROUGH  Volume 07A  Page 18

[Jomot]

The 1867 marriage is what I have found also, it is just the change in maiden name that puts me off thinking that it could be them

It looks to me as though Sarah Salter had two illegitimate children - Sarah Jane in 1844, probably to a Mr Bedford, and then James in 1845 to Mr Knight - probably Charles, who she then married.

Sarah Jane then used her birth name of Salter when she married and to register the earliest of her children, but used her stepfathers name of Knight for the rest.

I think the starting point has to be the birth certificate of Sarah Jane Salter BEDFORD. 

[bobbyhamster]

Blimey!

Thank you for that.

I will order George Henry and that birth certificate of Sarah Jane Salter - Bedford.

[Jomot]

Blimey!

Thank you for that.

I will order George Henry and that birth certificate of Sarah Jane Salter - Bedford.

Fingers crossed that Sarah Jane's mother is Sarah Salter!   It would be good if you could you let us know what it says once it arrives.