John Cameron: Birth Place - Help Please!

[majm]

Ummmmmm

Just in from one of my esteemed elderly relatives (born NSW, Australia 1910) ........

  "Erm" used in NSW public service workplace conversations until mid 1950s when it was abandoned in favour of a slight cough immediately followed by "Ahemm" and then the speaker went straight into verbal commentary without regard to the conversation being interrupted.   

  "Erm" was spoken quietly,  whereas "Ahemm" was spoken aggressively, and if speakers were all standing, the speaker would take a step forward.

If seated (usually in a formal meeting) and allowed to continue speaking, then the minute taker may have included the significant words in any official records, but if an "Ahemm" user was 'put back in their place' by the chairman then the minute taker would usually note "Chairman reminded all present to refrain from interjecting".

I then asked about "Agh"  and I am informed (by esteemed rellie) that it is a long standing expression, used frequently throughout his life, so its NSW usage may begin possibly back into early 19th century.  It is simply a polite way of saying "Phew, so you've finally understood and I don't have to keep repeating myself"

I also asked about "Um" and I am informed that "Yes, of course, those RChatters are right, it is an interjection, a polite one, seeking gentle quietness for those present to actually pause, look at the speaker, listen and comprehend, so that they can contradict or agree with the speaker."

And errrrrrrrrrr ....  then some people wonder how I can be so long winded in my own explanations... 

JM

 

[BCameron]

Yes I do mean genealogy, sorry I think that must have auto corrected!

Hi B & welcome to RC 

Can you please give us the names of your grandparents & all the details you can from the marriage cert. please (assuming they were married in Scotland)?

Where were they married would be the 1st thing to look at & what were the addresses of each on the marriage cert?

What were the names of their parents given on the marriage cert. as this will help locate them in census records?

Depending on his father's occupation he may have moved around?

Did any of the children have any unusual or less common names which would be easier to look for?

Do you know any of their yrs of birth or guesstimates & names in order of eldest to youngest which can be compared with RD of births?

Please do not post the names of any possible living people though, only people you know to be deceased.

Annie

My Grandparents names were John Cameron born 14 October 1934, and Patricia Mary Cameron (nee Folan) born 30 March 1936 in Old or West Kilpatrick in Scotland. I don't have the marriage certificate, however from my Father's birth certificate it says they were married on 10 April 1955 in Renfrew, Scotland.

My grandfather's occupation on my Father's birth certificate is listed as a ship steward. I also know that his father was also called John Cameron, and his mother's name was Mary (although I do not know her maiden name - it may have been some variation of Morris).

I know the children's names, however they are all still living, and as such I won't post their information. However, it may be of note that both my father and I have the middle name Saith. Although I can't find any John Cameron's with the middle name Saith, so it may not be much help.

Hi BCameron,
are you in the USA?
Maggsie

No, I am based in Australia, my father's family immigrated here in the 1960s. My grandfather died here, however the laws here are very different to the UK and they will only release copies of death certificates to the next of kin.

Is Um a word?
Maggsie

It's an interjection.

BCameron,
Does the form specifically ask for town of birth? A birth would have been registered in a district. Do the forms ask you to supply your grandparent's birth certificates?

The form's do specifically ask for town. From my understanding, a district in Scotland is essentially a town? My Father's birth certificate says 'the district of Paisley' however Paisley is a town/city. I don't need to their birth certificates, just their place and date of birth.

It seems ridiculous that I have so much information on them, and still can't figure our where my Grandfather was born or what 'John Cameron' he is on the list of Scotland's People!

[majm]

I wonder if the immigration papers will give exact place of birth for your grandfather?   The National Archives of Australia should have these. 

http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/index.aspx

ADD
If your Grandfather died in NSW less than 30 years ago, no member of the general public can access the dc, BUT any person named on that dc can access it.    So your Dad can apply for a copy of it, as the dc should list Grandfather's children by name and age. 

JM

[BCameron]

I wonder if the immigration papers will give exact place of birth for your grandfather?   The National Archives of Australia should have these. 

http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/index.aspx

ADD
If your Grandfather died in NSW less than 30 years ago, no member of the general public can access the dc, BUT any person named on that dc can access it.    So your Dad can apply for a copy of it, as the dc should list Grandfather's children by name and age. 

JM

Hi there, I used these records to find his exact date of birth (as before I only knew the year) but they don't appear to list the place of birth at all from what I can see? I used RecordSearch and searched the Immigration collection to do this.

Yes, my Father may be able to get a copy of his death certificate. However, he is not supporting me to pursue British citizenship, due to his own issues with their life in Scotland and his parents. So sadly I don't think he will want to go through that process for me.
 
Cheers

[majm]

Have you asked NAA if there's more records available up not uploaded ... your Dad should be able to apply ... eg the actual application to migrate, the medical/dental records etc...  these used to be displayed but were withdrawn several years ago due to concerns about the possible sensitive info displayed.

http://www.naa.gov.au/about-us/contact/

JM

[BCameron]

Have you asked NAA if there's more records available up not uploaded ... your Dad should be able to apply ... eg the actual application to migrate, the medical/dental records etc...  these used to be displayed but were withdrawn several years ago due to concerns about the possible sensitive info displayed.

http://www.naa.gov.au/about-us/contact/

JM

See above comment about my Father. However, that's really interesting to know there are more documents. Do you know if there are any avenues to access them for family members? I may contact NAA.

Thanks!

[majm]

The relevant NAA file is indexed at the online index, but it has not yet been examined.   I can find it easily at their index.   You could ask the NAA for advice and explain your purpose.  They may dedact part of the file or otherwise, or they may simply provide you with the necessary documentation to assist your application, or after the file has been examined the determination may be that it is not suitable for release.  But you need to at least approach them, as they hold the records.

JM

[Jamjar]

You can order the marriage cert ScotlandsPeople, online:

CAMERON JOHN        Spouse: FOLAN  1955 reference 575/ 42 entry number 42 Renfrew

Jamjar

[BCameron]

The relevant NAA file is indexed at the online index, but it has not yet been examined.   I can find it easily at their index.   You could ask the NAA for advice and explain your purpose.  They may dedact part of the file or otherwise, or they may simply provide you with the necessary documentation to assist your application, or after the file has been examined the determination may be that it is not suitable for release.  But you need to at least approach them, as they hold the records.

JM

Thanks, good idea I will do this!

You can order the marriage cert ScotlandsPeople, online:

CAMERON JOHN        Spouse: FOLAN  1955 reference 575/ 42 entry number 42 Renfrew

Jamjar

Yes, unfortunately though marriage certs at the time did not list place of birth I believe? As such it probably won't be very helpful for my purpose, as place of birth is all I need!