Author Topic: Simmons  (Read 1837 times)

Offline AMBLY

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,983
    • View Profile
Re: Simmons
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 04 February 17 11:59 GMT (UK) »
Hi Lavender123,

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=506581.0
Old topic 2011: which also mentioned, that on the marriage cert to Mary Ann HAMANN , that Frederick's father was also named Frederick, occupation "Foreman".   Frederick jnr and his wife Mary Ann in 1901 are in West Ham  and his pob is given as "Gravesend, Kent" about 1870.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=664300.0
Old topic 2013: Again, this topic also mentioned, your Frederick's father was also named Frederick from his marriage to Mary Ann HAMANN. I think this topic, when it was merged with another -  is where the name (William?) and occupation (Clerk) confusion has arisen for Frederick's father, too.

I'm not saying this family below is the right one, but it looks promising enough to at least pursue and see what transpires:

1871: 8 Terrace Court, Gravesend Kent
RG10 Piece 890 / Folio 45 / Pg 22
Head: Fredrick SIMMONS 33, Labourer, b Ilsley, Berkshire
Wife: Sarah SIMMONS 34, b Darlaston, Staffordshire
Dau: Mary SIMMONS 10, Walbrook, Staffordshire,
Dau: Sarah Ann SIMMONS 7, Pensnett, Staffordshire,
Dau: Julia SIMMONS 5, b Battersea Park, Surrey
Dau: Elizabeth SIMMONS 3, b Battersea Park, Surrey
Son: Frederick SIMMONS 5 mths, b Gravesend Kent

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline lavender123

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Simmons
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 04 February 17 12:15 GMT (UK) »
Thanks ambly for your help if Frederick senior census was 1872 that's shows he was born 1838/39 if his birth details would be on the census or thereabouts. Thanks.

Offline AMBLY

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,983
    • View Profile
Re: Simmons
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 04 February 17 12:56 GMT (UK) »
Hi Lavender123,

Well so far,  I do think there is a fair to great chance, the Frederick SIMMON(D)S, father and son, found in 1871 Census I posted  above, is your fellow. That family ended up in West Ham, Essex - where your Frederick was with his wife Mary Ann in 1901 and beyond.

The son Frederick in 1871 is the right age and place of birth (b 1870, b Gravesend), and right father's name (Frederick) -  to match your Frederick b abt 1870 in Gravesend as per details  his 1901 Census  and 1896 marriage.

The father Frederick (b abt 1838) in the Census  all the way through, is consistently a 'Labourer' or 'General Labourer'. However, that's a very common sort of occupation to be 'talked down' on Census whereas he could actually have been a 'Foreman' of a group of labourers, or conversely, a General Labourer could be talked up on a Marriage Cert, not uncommon either. I wouldn't discount this family due to that occupation 'discrepancy', anyway. Here are the details (you'll see the surname is either recorded with or without the 'D'):

1861:  Chapel Street, Village of Coseley, Sedgley, Staffordshire
Head: Frederick SIMMONS  23, Gen Lab, bWest  Ilsley, Berkshire
Wife: Sarah SIMMONS 24, b Darlaston, Staffs
Dau: Mary SIMMONS 11, b Sedgley, Staffs ( this likely meant to be 11mths, or 1 month, or 11 days, etc)

1871: At 8 Terrace Court, Gravesend
RG10 Piece 890 / Folio 45 / Pg 22
Head: Fredrick SIMMONS 33, Labourer, b Ilsley Berkshire
Wife: Sarah SIMMONS 34, b Darlaston, Staffordshire
Dau: Mary SIMMONS 10, Walbrook, Staffordshire,
Dau: Sarah Ann SIMMONS 7, Pensnett, Staffordshire,
Dau: Julia SIMMONS 5, b Battersea Park, Surrey
Dau: Elizabeth SIMMONS 3, b Battersea Park, Surrey
Son: Frederick SIMMONS 5 mths, b Gravesend Kent

1881: At 43 Benges Street, Canning Town, West Ham, Essex
RG11 - Piece - 1716 - Folio  15 - Pg 23
Head: Fredrick SIMMONDS 43, Gen Labourer, b West Ilsley Berkshire
Wife: Sarah SIMMONDS 43, b Darlaston, Staffordshire
Dau: Julia SIMMONDS 15, b Battersea, Surrey
Dau: Elizabeth SIMMONDS 13, b Battersea, Surrey
Dau: Frederick SIMMONDS 10, b Gravesend Kent
Dau: Ellen SIMMONDS 7, b Shornward, Kent
Dau: Edith SIMMONDS 1 mo, b Canning Town, Essex

1891: At 42 Benges Street, Canning Town, West Ham, Essex
RG12 - Piece 1318 - Folio 133 - Pg21
Head: Frederick SIMMONDS 53, Labourer, b Iisley, Berks
Wife: Sarah SIMMONDS 54, Laundress, b Darlaston, Staffordshire
Dau: Elizabeth SIMMONDS 23, unm, Laundress, b Battersea, London
Son: Frederick SIMMONDS 20, unm, b Gravesend, Kent
Dau: Edith SIMMONDS 10, Scholar, b West Ham Essex

1901 At 43 Benges Street, Canning Town, West Ham, Essex

RG13 - Piece 1581 - Folio: 164 - Pg 63
Head: Frederick SIMMONS 63, General Labourer, b West Ilsley, Berks
Dau: Elizabeth SIMMONS 33, unm, Laundress, b Battersea, London
Dau: Ellen SIMMONS 27, unm, Laundress, b Shorn Kent
Dau: Edith SIMMONS 10, Scholar, b West Ham Essex
Grandchild: Lily WHITTING 14, b West Ham, Essex

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Online Kay99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,495
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Simmons
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 04 February 17 15:53 GMT (UK) »
Looking at the Hamann side of the family that Ambley posted a link to above on a previous thread    http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=506581.0   

Since this original thread the General Record Office Birth Index also gives the mothers maiden and I think the list below are children of Peter and Mary Hamann with mother's maiden name listed at variations of Klaus/Claus

HAMANN, WILHELMINA  CHRISTINE MARGARETTA  Mothers Maiden Name KLAUS   
1862  Sept Quarter  MILE END OLD TOWN  Vol 01C  Page 49

HAMANN, PETER  JOSEPH      Mothers Maiden name CLOSE   
1864  June Quarter  MILE END OLD TOWN  Volume 01C  Page 505

HAMANN, PAULINA     Mother Maiden Name KLAUS   
1866  March Quarter  MILE END OLD TOWN  Volume 01C  Page 558
Died 1867

HAMANN, SOPHIA  WILHELMINA MARGARETHE     Mothers maiden name CLAUS     
1868  June Quarter WHITECHAPEL  Volume 01C  Page 397

HAMANN, MARGRETHA      Mothers Maiden Name CLANS
1870  June Quarter WHITECHAPEL  Volume 01C  Page 386

HAMANN, MARIA  GERTRUDE      Mothers Maiden Name KLAUS 
1878  March Quarter WHITECHAPEL  Volume 01C  Page 380


Offline lavender123

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Simmons
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 04 February 17 17:32 GMT (UK) »
Thanks AMBLY. Well there is a small problem  last year I got the 1911 census from somebody on here  and Harold simmons my husbands father was born 10/11/1907 at 22 hooper road custom house . London or Essex. Near Canning Town and West Ham , which makes Frederick Simmons junior 63 years old and there was more children in the family although when he lived at Canning Town . His wife seems to have died about 1900 because she is not on the 1901 census and Harold simmons was born 1907 there was a frank also other boys in the family very strange.

Offline lavender123

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Simmons
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 04 February 17 17:40 GMT (UK) »
Also Maryann hamann was married to Fredrick Simmons .junior  Harold simmons and frank Simmons  were fredericks sons where does hooper road come From? I think we have the right hamann and Simmons but if he was 63 in 1901 and had more children.as my husband has told me his father Harold had a lot of brothers maybe we have the wrong Frederick simmons