Identifying William Murphys father

[CmbIR59]

Can someone please assist me with this query, I am trying to determine who the father of a forbear of mine might be. His name is William Murphy ( born 13th March 1868 at Rowcliffe Lane Penrith – died 1938 ) – as there is no father listed on the birth certificate I can only assume that he was illegitimate.

The only clue I have is that I believe that his mother and her parents were a part of a close knit community of Hawker families who lived in Cumberland - and that possibly his father may be from one of these families. I have seen some older posts on this site from people who came from Hawker families and for example there is a mention of the Murphy, & Stewart families and I am hoping that someone may be aware of family connections, as these Hawker families also intermarried at times.

Williams mothers name was Elizabeth Murphy and she was born in Wigton, Cumberland on the 27th January in 1841, the two witnesses were James Magee and Julia Stewart (born Ireland) . Elizabeth’s parents were Patrick Murphy ( also listed as Peter at times )( 1797-1879 ) and Catherine Callaghan( 1804-1870) both born in Ireland and their occupation was listed as “Penrith Pedlars” on the birth certificate.Catherine Murphy appears on the 1861 Census living in Penrith and her occupation is listed as Hawker.

Wiliiam Murphy is on the 1871 census aged 3 living in Penrith where he is listed as a boarder with the Knox family from Scotland. William had a half brother named Henry Murphy who was born in 1862 – and he also appears to be illegitimate, he may have the same father as William or this could be another individual. Elizabeth Murphy had a sister named Rosanna who married a John Doyle, and at one point in the 1851 census she is lodging with Julia Stewart who was a witness at her sister Elizabeth’s baptism.

I realise that this may be a tall order, but I would greatly appreciate any assistance or advice that can be offered

[Jebber]

Welcome to Rootschat, I am sorry you have not had any response so far.

I am bumping this up the board in the hope someone can help you.

[Milliepede]

If either of the half brothers married there's a faint chance they may have named a father on the marriage certificate. Even if they did though no guarantee they knew the right person, could equally have made one up. 

[Daisypetal]

Hi,

Welcome to RootsChat 

If the family is Catholic I wonder if it would be worth contacting St. Catherine's church in Penrith to see where they keep their baptism records and if they are available to search,

http://stcatherinepenrith.org.uk/

You never know they might offer to have a look for you

Regards,
Daisy

[CmbIR59]

Hi All,
Thank you for your advice, i did discover that Williams half brother Henry did have a father listed on his wedding certificate a Robert Murphy(deceased). At present I have not found out too much about Robert - and he may just have been a name put on the certificate. And on closer inspection I found that Elizabeth was actually born in Penrith and not Wigton as I originally thought. I would welcome any other ideas to unravel this issue,
Thanks again
Regards

[Ayashi]

The only real luck I've had with an illegitimate child where the father wasn't named is with my 2xgt grandmother. Her uncle married around the time she was born and given that she had a middle name that was her new aunt's maiden name we suspected one of the aunt's brothers might have been responsible. After my mother did an ancestral DNA test (just generally, not for this search in particular) we ended up getting matched to people from the aunt's family so now while I can't pin down a specific man I'm pretty confident I'm pointing the finger of accusation in the right direction.

[Milliepede]

I managed to find a father either by luck or good detective work!

No father on the birth but when the chap married he named a father Joseph (same surname as his mother) who was an engine driver.  I thought it was made up but noticed as a young man he was lodging with a Joseph who was an engine driver.  The household overlapped 2 census pages so it was a wonder I even looked back to see who head of house was.

Anyway later on after he had married a daughter of his was on a census with Joseph the engine driver and down as granddaughter which clinched it.  So miracles do happen and you find out what seems impossible 

[Daisypetal]

Hi,

I hope you don't mind me asking but where do you see William MURPHY  living with a Joseph MURPHY, I can't see them anywhere

I can see William MURPHY born abt. 1868 Penrith in the following censuses,


1871   Wm MURPHY    3    Boarder    as you say living with the KNOX family


1881  RG11/5142  f.36  p.67   Union Workhouse, Penrith
William MURPHY    Pauper    12    Scholar    Cumberland    Penrith


1891  RG12/4276  f.53  p.18  Edenhall, Cumberland
Dolphumby? Farm
William MURPHY    Serv    23    Farm Servant    Cumberland    Penrith
Living in the household of Jonathan LANCASTER.


1901  RG13; Piece: 4854; Folio: 168; Page: 29  Penrith
Blue Bell Lane
MURPHY
William        33    General Labourer   
Selina         30
William E     6
Mary Eliz^th   5
All born Penrith


1911 same family in Penrith.
Something I've never seen before, there is a Nationality column and it says "Irish Subj parentage" (after William's POB).


Which granddaughter is with Joseph?

Am I looking at the wrong family?

Sorry, another question   How do you know which Elizabeth MURPHY is William's mother and where does she go?


 
Daisy

[Milliepede]

Where does it mention William Murphy living with a Joseph Murphy?  I can't see mention of a Joseph Murphy or a granddaughter in the original post