Births at Brownlow workhouse Liverpool

[wsts811]

Hello.   I am completely stumped!!!  I have been looking for my grandfather's birth, as well as his parents. I do have his parent's names from other documents, but I can find no records of their marriage, etc. I have ordered/received a possible birth certificate, but I cannot trace it to anything.  I have worked on this for several years and have been to Liverpool library several times... for hours.  still stumped.  In any case, I need to prove or disprove this one certificate... The child born 1860 is Charles Ferry. born in Brownlow Workhouse.  It only lists the mother's name, which was Frances Ferry. The father's name is not listed.  I have never found a Frances Ferry in the census and have also looked in  the 1861 and 1871 UK census at Brownlow and find nothing (I know 1861 is only initials, but none showing a child of 1 with the initials cf and mother of ff).  I am hoping someone has some information on births at Brownlow etc.  Here are my questions:  1. Was it possible that a person could not be an inmate (?) at the workhouse, but still go to their hospital to have a baby if it was in the vicinity of where they lived?  2. Since my Ferry family were Irish Catholic, and let's say the baby was born in Brownlow, would the baby have been baptized within the confines of the workhouse, instead of the local Catholic church?  If so, was there a Catholic church on the Brownlow workhouse grounds and what was its name? and where would I find the baptismal records?...  With regards to this child, I have looked page by page through many of the church baptismal records and found nothing. 

Sorry for the length of this, but I am completely stuck on my great grandfather and great grandmother and cannot move forward on their line.  ugh!!!
I hope someone can help me.
Thank you
Wendy

[KGarrad]

The definitive site is www.workhouses.org.uk, and the page for Liverpool is:
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Liverpool/

If you scroll down to the bottom of the page, you will see that all existing records are held at Liverpool Record Office and Local History Centre - At the Library!

Births (1841-1914) and baptisms (1831-1858, 1874-1928) are available.
A serious fire in 1862 destroyed the church; presumably the current Parish Register of the day was destroyed, too?

[philipsearching]

1. Was it possible that a person could not be an inmate (?) at the workhouse, but still go to their hospital to have a baby if it was in the vicinity of where they lived?

Hallo, Wendy.

The short answer is: yes.  An ancestor of mine had two children born in the workhouse of St Giles, London in the 1850s - the mother was admitted for the labour and discharged two weeks later.

Hope this helps
Philip

[heywood]

Hello,

Have you considered this family - 1861 2695/100/20

Margaret Ferry 26 yrs
John Ferry   19 yrs brother
Francis Ferry 23 yrs daughter
John Sturgess 3 yrs nephew
Charles Sturgess 7 months nephew
All born Liverpool

Francis is female and is obviously not a daughter.

There may not be a baptism or at least one published online.
Heywood

[chempat]

Could you post the 1881 or 1891 census for him, please?

Added:
Looked at some of your previous posts - 'your' Charles probably born 1863/1864?

[heywood]

Just found the previous thread re the family

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=651873.0 It is quite complicated.

Wendy, have you accepted or disregarded the findings there? Are you now just trying to find a baptism?

[heywood]

Hello again,

Re your previous thread and the enquiry by pm.
Here are the births for the twins whose baptisms show Gillen Ferry

September 1871  Liverpool 8b pg 294
Mary Ann Gillon
William Gillon
GRO records show mother's maiden name as Ferry

Heywood

[ManvilleLiverpool]

Hi Wendy,

I appreciate this is an old thread, but I have also been looking into Charles Ferry and thought I would share what I've found in case you or anyone else is still looking. I am a descendant of Charles's son John.

Like you, I couldn't find anything on Charles prior to his marriage to Mary Smith in 1887. All I knew was:
GRO Index: Charles Ferry, S 1860, Liverpool, No Mother's Maiden Name
Marriage record: Father John Ferry (Ship's carpenter, deceased). Mother Frances.

Since there was no MMN on the birth record, I have to assume John Ferry was invented and Frances was unmarried.

The 1861 family mentioned further up this thread is correct. Frances FERRY is living with her siblings Margaret and John, plus her sons John and Charles STURGESS.

By 1871, Frances "married" (I am dubious as I can't find any marriage record) someone called WHALLEY. In the 1871 census, Frances was widowed and running a lodging house at Atkinson St, with her sons John and Charles WHALLEY.

One of her lodgers was called William Gellan, and I assume this is the father of the twins Frances had at the end of 1871 (GRO: William and Mary Ann GILLON, S 1871, Liverpool, MMN Ferry).

In 1880, Frances married Richard MAWDSLEY. There is a record on Ancestry for a Mawdsley-Whalley marriage, where the father is Cornelius FERRY.

In 1881, Frances is living with Richard MAWDSLEY, with her sons John and Charles WHALLEY, and son William GILLON. Mary Ann Gillon died in 1871.

I am certain all of the above is correct, as William Gillon was the witness at Charles Ferry's marriage to Mary Smith. Also, in the 1871 census, William Gillon Snr was a painter and glazier, and Charles Ferry later went on to become a house painter - possibly aged 11 he was sent out to work with William!


I can also find Frances Ferry in the 1841 census - living with her siblings Margaret and John, plus mother Margaret and another sibling Ellen. You can find all their christening records at St Mary's on Ancestry (sometimes the father is listed as Neil rather than Cornelius). I can't find any of them in 1851. I believe Cornelius had died in 1830, and the rest of the family expect Frances had all passed by the end of 1861, when Frances was aged 29.


So it is a rather complicated family! It doesn't make a lot of sense as you go through, but by the end it does all come round in a nice little circle back to Charles Ferry's marriage record!

I hope that's helpful to you, or anyone else researching in the future. I'd love to know how you're related to Charles Ferry, and anything else you've found out. For example - I can't find the workhouse birth record you mentioned.

Jo