This branch of the RIDLER family has me confused.

[hettyhen]

This is a long and involved query, I know what is meant, just hope you can follow my train of thought.
Frederick George RIDLER born 1875- 22 Nov 1939, married in 1898 Sarah Esther HOOKER had a son Frederick William Thomas born 1899.They were divorced, Decree Nisi 8 Dec 1906. Sarah died 5 Apr 1933, but can’t find her birth, (could be anywhere), or death on NZBDM. Have 2 probates as Sarah RIDLER 1933 and as Sarah Esther RIDLER aka Sarah HOOKER 1951, after a POSB account was found in her maiden name.
Frederick married in 1917 Mary Ann BROOKER. C1868 (no birth found)-27 Dec 1952.
Children on NZBDM all registered under 1917 births but born before then as follows 1917/22730 Vera Olive born 28 Dec 1908, 1917/22731 Winnie May born 5 Sept 1911, 1917/22732 Albert Eric Phipps born 17 Jul 1913 , 1917/29942 Douglas Allen Phipps born 13 Jul 1915.  All have Father=Frederick George, Mother=Mary Ann.
Another two RIDLER children are buried with Frederick & Mary Ann in a family grave at Karori cemetery. Stanley George died 31 Mar 1907 age 9 months, (have found no birth or death on NZBDM as yet) and Alfreda Margaret died 25 Jul 1919 age 9 months. (Death on NZBDM but no birth, not 100 years ago?)
WCC cemetery database also has a burial “Baby RIDLER 0 years 13/08/1910” but no 1907 for Stanley George.
Mary Ann also had a son Cecil John Alexander RIDLER, known as Jack, born c1900 from death notice 12 Oct 1945 Evening Post in 45th year. He was a Miner in Shipton’s Flat, Queensland on 1937 & 1943 E/R (spelt Alexanda) and enlisted at Cairns in Aust Army Service Corps as C. J. Alexanda RIDLER born 9 Oct 1905 Wellington NZ. He died as P.O.W Borneo 5 Mar 1945, buried Labuan Malayasia.
Any ideas or thoughts to solve the following queries would be much appreciated.
Why did Mary Ann & Frederick wait until 1917 to marry, were they living together and was Mary Ann married to someone else?
Why do the children have a 1917 register number, why not a number in their birth year. Would that mean that Frederick adopted them after the marriage? 
Who was the father of C.J.A “Jack” ?
 Maybe the Phipps as Christian name on the two boys is a clue to Mary Ann’s maiden or mother’s maiden name but hasn’t helped me as yet.
Cheers
 HeatherR

[Beg Clonrode...]

Hello...

The affidavit in the probate you mentioned says that Sarah Esther RIDLER died 5 Apr 1933 in Palmerston North.

Could she be the Sarah Ester GREY died 5 Apr 1933 buried in Terrace End cemetery in Palmerston North.

The cemetery website says she is married and gives an address. Maybe look into it using electoral rolls.

Palmerston North cemetery search
http://tinyurl.com/hz25w67

BDM NZ Deaths
1933/142 - GREY, Sarah - 52Y - d.o.d 5 Apr 1933

Palmerston North library Newspapers Index
GREY, Sarah (52)
Source: Manawatu Evening Standard 06 APR 1933, page 1
General Note: Death notice

(maybe email Palmerston North library for a copy of the death notice)

---

Why do the children have a 1917 register number, why not a number in their birth year.

The 1917 in 1917/xxxxx refers to the year of registration, not the year of the event.

As three of the numbers are consecutive it means those births were registered at the same time. The fourth possibly a bit later.

If you put the birth dates in the "Search From:" and "Search To:" boxes it will display the entry

For example:
Search From: 17/7/1913
and
Search To: 17/7/1913
and
Registration Number: 1917/22732
displays

1917/22732   Ridler   Albert Eric Phipps   Mary Ann   Frederick George

---

Stanley George died 31 Mar 1907 age 9 months, (have found no birth or death on NZBDM as yet)

You mentioned "PHIPPS" earlier so maybe...

BDM NZ Deaths
1907/3587 - PHIPPS, Stanley George - 9 months - d.o.d 31 Mar 1907

---

Mary Ann also had a son Cecil John Alexander RIDLER [...] death notice 12 Oct 1945 Evening Post
Who was the father of C.J.A “Jack” ?

For what it's worth, the Queensland BDM website (Deaths) has his father as Frederick George RIDLER

Regards
Beg

[spades]

Hi Hettyhen,

To answers your queries:

Why did Mary Ann & Frederick wait until 1917 to marry, were they living together and was Mary Ann married to someone else?

You might not get an answer to the first question. For the second, look for them on electoral rolls living at the same address. And I suggest you purchase a printout of their 1917 marriage certificate which should tell you Mary Ann's maiden name and if she was divorced.

Why do the children have a 1917 register number, why not a number in their birth year. Would that mean that Frederick adopted them after the marriage? 

Not necessarily. I suggest you contact NZ BDM (Internal Affairs) and ask.

Who was the father of C.J.A “Jack” ?

Again, his birth certificate should provide the answers. Again, ask for a printout.

Spades

[Lucy2]

Hi Heather

Here is the birth registration for "Cecil John Alexander RIDLER" :

NZ Births

1900 / 16689 - BROKER* - Cecil John
Mother :   Mary Ann                             Father :   N/R

Date of birth (as deduced from online Birth Registration listing)  = 9 October 1900 :

[Note:  "BROKER" may just be a spelling error ?   
Checking the Birth microfiche might sort it out ?  ]

The birth was registered at Wellington.

   ~  Lu

[Lucy2]

NZ Marriage

Mary Ann BROKER - John PHIPPS --  Year :   1901


     ~  Lu

[Lucy2]

NZ Birth

1879 /2704 - BROKER - Mary Ann

Parents :    Emma and William

   ~  Lu

[Lucy2]

Divorce of Mary Ann :

PHIPPS v. PHIPPS

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZTR19161209.2.20.5

   ~  Lu

[hettyhen]

Lu, Spades & Beg,
Thank you very much, even an article from the good old "Truth" to keep.  Am just about to go out so will check all these answers tomorrow. I should have tried harder with the "Phipps" and maybe found that connection, but it's all good experience in the hunt for the next hard to find family member.
Thanks
HeatherR

[Lucy2]

Frederick married in 1917 Mary Ann BROOKER. C1868 (no birth found)-27 Dec 1952.

Death Reg'n. for Mary Ann RIDLER - 1952 - shows she was 74 years .. so born c. 1878.