COPESTAKES of Derbyshire

[diseymary]

Hello, I have tangled myself and trying to sort out parentage of Joseph Copestake.
Joseph Copestake and Lydia Heaton had 7/8 children, I cannot find a marriage for them, he came from Bradley, Derbyshire, Lydia from Ipstones, Staffordshire.
John born ?1775, Lydia 1777, Jane 1778, William 1780, Jane 1783, Joseph 1785, Martha 1787, Charles 1791.
There is a will of Joseph Copestake death 1818, in which he states his eldest son John, but John is the only child that I can't find a baptism for with parents Joseph and Lydia, found all the others. His will doesn't name his wife, makes provision for her and mentions all the kids names.
There is a Joseph Copestake baptised 11 July 1743 at Osmaston by Ashbourne, father John.
There is a Joseph Copestake baptised 8 July 1733 at Bradley, parents Joseph Copestake b. 1699 and Martha Brassington b. 1705, J & M also had Joseph born 1732, William 1734, unnamed son 1737, Jane 1740, George 1742.
1733 Joseph married Sarah Cockayn?
Joseph who died 1818 was aged 84, makes him born 1733.
Can anyone help me decide which Joseph is the one in the will, who his parents are and find a marriage for Joseph and Lydia.
Many thanks.

[goldie61]

Some ideas:
Which of Joseph and Lydia’s children is your ancestor? What was his occupation?
Do you know where he lived? - apart from ‘Bradley’. anything more specific like the name of a farm, or a street?
Does the will of Joseph Copestake of 1818 give his occuaption and  a specific place where he lived? Or perhaps it mentions in the will a house or land that he owns.
So can you tie in the two occupations? or the places? A bit difficult if it just says ‘Bradley’.
In his will, does it give any clues to the children’s ages? Any given as under 18, or 21? Do any of them have grand children? - in which case they will be older.
 
I see the marriage of the Joseph Copstake in 1760 was by licence. Do you have this? It is on findmypast but I don’t have a subscription at the moment. Does it give any more information about him? Again occupation and where he lived?
I had a look to see if this Sarah Copstake nee Cockayn died, and he remarried Lydia, but couldn’t see a burial on familysearch - not to say she didn’t die of course and it never got entered in a register.
On the 1760 marriage, Joseph signs his name, (Sarah makes her mark). Is this the same signature as on the 1818 will? - albeit some 50 years later.

If he was born in 1733, he would be quite old to be marrying and starting a family in 1775. Not impossible of course, but he may well have been married before.
I see there is a christening of a John Copstake at Bradley 13 April 1763 on familysearch - it just says father Joseph which is a shame.
Perhaps this was the son of Joseph and Sarah. There don’t seem to be any more children then until 1775, so perhaps Sarah died and Joseph remarried Lydia.

Have you looked for any wills for John Copstake, after 1743 at Osmaston, and Joseph after 1733 at Bradley? again I’d be looking for place names and occupations.
Also Lydia Heaton’s father to see if he left a will. Again, these are mostly on findmypast (though I have come across a few that for some reason haven’t made it!) I always check the Staffordshire Names Index at https://www.staffsnameindexes.org.uk/default.aspx?Index=C
as well, although their ‘soundex’ facility is not as good as findmypast, so you may need to check different spellings. It doesn’t just cover Staffordshire.

Out of interest, how do you know Heaton was her maiden name if you don’t have a marriage for them?

[emeltom]

If it helps the Joseph Copestake who married Sarah Cockayn in 1760 was a blacksmith.

Emeltom

[emeltom]

Another one to add - familysearch has the baptism of a John Copestake in Bradley in 1763 father Joseph but unfortunately no mother's name given.

Emeltom

[goldie61]

That's the same one I found in my other post I should think emelton. 

HAve you seen all the children's baptisms in the actual register diseymary? - the images are not on famsearch although they do have some Derbyshire registers. Sometimes the registers give more information like residence or occupation. I checked findmypast but not on there either - Derbyshire is not well served on FindMyPast and Ancestry.

[diseymary]

Thank you for your ideas and suggestions.
Joseph Copestake died 1818 made his will 1813, wife is mentioned several times without a name for her. He was a blacksmith. The children are all named, no ages or occupations:
John C, Lydia Blackham, Jane C, Martha C, Charles C, William C, Joseph C
Lydia appears to be the only married daughter (m. John Blackham 1807 Duffield)
The baptisms for the children come from Family search, but originals not seen.
In his will is mentioned Chessnage (?difficult to decipher) shop farm and land, his executors were Charles Heaton farmer of Auden/Masden?? and William Redfern.

The signature of Joseph C blacksmith, on 1760 marriage to Sarah Cockayn and signature of Joseph C blacksmith 1813 will are very alike.
I will look into the childrens' lives further.

I am researching Copestakes who were my mother-in-laws paternal line.

Many thanks

[diseymary]

Hello, I have another question on the Copestakes:

William Copestake (1780-1857) son of Joseph and Lydia married at age 39 to Frances Dallman and had 9 children - William, Mary, Frances, Joseph (1825-), Robert, Charles, Rebecca (1830-1910), Jane and Elizabeth (1833-1912).
Hugh Copestake (1855-1899) grandson of William is the line I am following. Hugh was illegitimate, there is conflicting information. Baptism records state mother was Susannah Copestake, but cannot find her anywhere, (I think she is imaginery). I ordered birth certificate for Hugh, mother was Rebecca Copestake, no father named. Hugh was brought up by his aunt Elizabeth (Betty) who  ???married Thomas Wallis.
1861 census he is Hugh Copestake, nephew
1871 census he is Hugh Wallis, son
He married Frances Dallman 1878 in Derby and it states his father's name is Joseph Copestake.
This is my question, do you think this is a lie just because he didn't want to say he was illegitimate or is it possible his uncle Joseph was his father? Where the name Hugh comes from is interesting as there aren't any Hugh Copestakes in previous generations. I wonder if the unnamed father was Hugh.

Appreciate any thoughts, thank you

[diseymary]

Hello,

Elizabeth (Betty) Copestake definitely married Thomas Wallis, those question marks near his name are a mistake! 

[goldie61]

Hi diseymary
It is strange it gives 'Rebecca' on the birth registration, and 'Susannah' on the baptism entry for his mother.
Who was the informant of the information on the birth registration?
As there is no father's name given, it would indeed seem he was illegitimate.
It is possible 'Hugh' was the father's name, although you can't say that for sure.
And it is not unknown for parish records to have the wrong name in them!

Again, I don't think you can assume his father was his uncle Joseph, just because he gives Joseph Copstake as his father at his marriage. As you say, it may have been a 'white lie' to cover up the fact he was illegitimate. You don't give a date of death for Joseph. Perhaps he was already dead by the time of Hugh's marriage, and it seemed a good idea to put him down as his father!
It would seem Joseph didn't leave a will - not on findmypast.


Sorry. Not a lot of concrete help! But it's difficult to find any proof one way or another for these problems.

By the way, if you want to make any corrections to a post after you have posted it, you can go to the
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