Gravestones etc

[MarieC]

Hi Prue!

One of the graves I was referring to was in Rookwood and it was very overgrown by large shrubs and grass and weeds (though probably not quite as bad as the one you refer to in London!) and the other was in St John's Parramatta where the stone was broken and lying on the ground.  That is the oldest family grave I know of (4xggrandmother, a convict) and I am really sorry that I don't feel I can do anything about it!

MarieC

[PrueM]

Hi Marie,
You should do something about it if you want to.  If you want to have the stone lifted and repaired, or whatever, that's your right as a descendant of that person.  What were your cousin's reasons for not doing anything?  If she just didn't think it was worth it, then she may not mind if you want to go to the trouble?
You're lucky to have a convict ancestor's grave - of my two convicts, one was buried in the old Sydney burial ground in 1836 and later dug up to make room for one of the city train stations (Town Hall I think) and i think the bones were moved to Rookwood en masse from there.  The other one died I know not where 
My dad's father had two little sisters who drowned in 1895 in Ulmarra, NSW, aged 10 and 6.  They are in the Ulmarra cemetery with no grave marker.  The family long ago moved away from that district and it has been in the back of my mind for a while that I should have something put there for them. 
Prue

[Guy Etchells]

I took two distant cousins there a few weeks later, and we turned the stone over so we could read it (after taking secateurs and knives to clear a path!) but most of the face of the stone had rotted away into the earth - it had obviously fallen a long time ago. However, we made out some of the names and other text (we knew who had been buried there from the cemetery records)...we decided to leave the stone up - we and our immediate families are the only descendants of the people in the grave, so we felt it was our right to leave the stone upright and visible, if it had been in better condition we might have laid it down again to preserve the carving, but so much of it was gone we preferred to have it standing so it could at least be seen from the path.

I was really saddened by the state of about 80% of the old Camberwell cemetery. The same, I believe, goes for many of the very large Victorian urban cemeteries in London. The letter I had from the council indicated that the grave was in a "conservation" area - when I first read that I thought "oh good, they are conserving all the graves so it will be in great condition!" - how wrong I was!

Gosh, what a rambling post that was

Have attached a pic of part of the stone so you can see the state it was in. I asked the council if I could lift it and they said I could basically do what i liked with it.

Prue

Unfortunately your actions are going to cause the stone to deteriorate more rapidly and my even (if you left the stone standing) result in the stone being removed, in case it falls on someone.

It is possible to read some stones where the entire face has eroded but this is expensive at present, as with all technology it will become cheaper in time.
Laying a carved stone face up will cause rapid deterioration due to frost damage, laying a stone face down slightly below ground level protects from frost damage, as does a good layer of leaves.
Stones that were intended to be laid flat are normally of better quality stone deeply engraved.

A conservation area or nature conservation area means a part of the graveyard where they can't be bothered clearing the undergrowth and it is allowed to return to nature.
Cheers
Guy

[Jane Eden]

I found that my greatgrandparents were in my local cemetery in Nottingham. I asked where the plot is and there is no stone. I cannot believe that there has never been a stone. My greatgrandfather died in 1920 and was fairly wealthy. My greatgrandmother joined him over 40 years later in the mid 1960s. How do I find out if there was a stone and if so what has happened to it. The cemetery officer said stones were not taken away as they are not the councils property and it would not have deteriorated so quickly since 1920. I presume it was moved to add greatgrannys inscription and never got returned, but how do I check this out.

Jane

[PrueM]

Unfortunately your actions are going to cause the stone to deteriorate more rapidly and my even (if you left the stone standing) result in the stone being removed, in case it falls on someone.

Hi Guy,
We were aware of the consequences of leaving the stone up, but as I said, it was pretty much completely deteriorated anyway and as we are the last living relatives, we decided it was our prerogative to leave the stone up.  It was left lying on its side, against a tree root, and is in no danger of falling over - if anyone could get into the area in the first place, through all the overgrowth!!
Prue

[MarieC]

Hi Prue,

My cousin just seems to believe strongly in leaving things as they are.  And I don't want to start family ructions - we are all strong-minded, Scottish and stubborn!

I was touched by the story of your grandfather's two little sisters.  My gggrandmother had two little daughters who died of diphtheria on the voyage out, and they are buried in St Vincent in the Cape Verde islands.  Like you, I would like to ensure that their graves are marked.  And I have a ggrandfather who died out past Quilpie somewhere and is buried by a stockroute, and so far I am having no luck in locating his grave.  I would like to find and restore it also!  (I am going to be busy, aren't I???)

Marie

[PrueM]

Blimey Marie, you will be a world traveller between Cape Verde islands and Quilpie 
Personally I reckon you will have more luck with finding the graves on the island than the one out back of Quilpie, but you never know...I remember being out Winton way about 10 years ago and stopping for a cuppa by the side of teh road, and there was a little marker for a grave of a surveyor or some other such government worker, right out there in the middle of nowhere.  So you might be lucky.
Yes, the little girls at Ulmarra is a sad story, I guess the family was too poor to shell out for a grave marker but we think we know where their grave is (luckily it is a small cemetery).  The younger girl went down to the river to bathe (that was their bathroom!) and fell in, and the older one went in to try to save her, but they both drowned.  Terribly sad.  They were the little sisters of my grandfather whose picture is on my profile; he would never have known them as he was only a baby when they died.
Prue

[uk2003]

About a year ago I located my Gd fathers & Gt Gd fathers family grave in  Weaste cemetery in Salford. I then rechecked with Agecroft cemetery who was buried in this plot and was shocked to find 7 people in total.

When I showed my father the pictures and listings he was also shocked as was the rest of his brothers/sisters.

It turns out that my fathers aunty replaced the original headstone when she had her mum my Gt Gd mother laid to rest, so as you can see the only names present are her mum & dad and F-in-L.

My family line goes through Frederick Gd father & Sampson/Samuel Gt Gd father. My father wants to replace the headstone but has been told me cannot as he is not the legal owner of the plot.

Why would someone do this type of thing, ignore her own brothers & sisters. I dont understand why

Regards
Ken

[Guy Etchells]

I found that my greatgrandparents were in my local cemetery in Nottingham. I asked where the plot is and there is no stone. I cannot believe that there has never been a stone. My greatgrandfather died in 1920 and was fairly wealthy. My greatgrandmother joined him over 40 years later in the mid 1960s. How do I find out if there was a stone and if so what has happened to it. The cemetery officer said stones were not taken away as they are not the councils property and it would not have deteriorated so quickly since 1920. I presume it was moved to add greatgrannys inscription and never got returned, but how do I check this out.

Jane

First you need to establish what class of plot it is, some plots prohibit the erection of gravestones.

It was very common for a grave not to be marked by a stone or to simply be surrounded by a kerb, these kerbs were often removed to prevent damage to the mowing machines.
Cheers
Guy