Cooper/Middlesex

[rosie99]

It does look as though the enumerator started to write something else then possibly tried writing over it.

[Jane190]

I think a year ago a woman helped me with my family via ancestry because I don't have a membership. There was a birth for a John Cooper born 1837 in Blacton ( Heston ) and than a same birth for a John Cooper born 1837 in Heston , both with parents William Cooper and Ann Shortland thats the Information she sent me .How can I be sure if my ancestor were of Romany heritage?  I can only See the England Censuses from familysearch but not from other genealogy pages. I think a lot of censuses have  written down if someone was a Gypsy or a traveller.


Regards

Jane

[rosie99]

I am trying to track your family back to see if I can find any sign of them being Romany. 

There are children being baptised in Heston with parents William & Ann on one in 1814 William is said to be a Shepherd.

Online family trees are often wrong, those on the familysearch website are mainly done for the purpose of their members baptising the dead and need treating with caution.  I will see what else I can find

Rosie

[rosie99]

William was buried 29 Jan 1837 age 45 so born c 1793

John was born 23 September 1836 and baptised 23 October 1836 - parents William & Ann Cooper no mothers maiden name given.  Ancestry is showing a baptism in 1839 for a brother George but the transcript is wrong it should be 1830 - I was hoping it was 1839 and that the birth had been registered 

I agree that it is probable that William was the son of  James & Mary - A possible Mary was living with son James in Heston in 1841 - In 1851 James gives his place of birth as Harmondsworth.  Still no indication they were Romany - James was a Farm labourer

[rosie99]

I can see baptisms for most of those children of James & Mary but no sign of one for a Salem or similar could it be a transcript error for James (1793) who I can't see either 

The familytree also says that James Cooper b.1750-55 Harmondsworth was the son of John Cooper jr. Who was born 1735 in Bincombe, Dorset to James and Catherine Cooper.
I don't know the occupation of James Cooper or his father.

I wonder how they made that connection   

I can see a possible baptism for Mary Appleton in Harmondsworth and Appleton families in that area prior to her birth. 

[Jane190]

Thanks for the Information 

What about Mary Appleton? She was the wife of James Cooper and I don't know much about her , her parents or siblings. I don''t think that they were Gypsies because they had not common Romany occupations or common Romany forenames.  But is Ezekiel a Romany name ? And was Beer seller a Romany occupation? I'm sorry for the questions but the family is very interesting 


Jane

[rosie99]

Ezekiel is a biblical name. 

Beer seller was a common occupation, many people at those times made their own beer and sold it from their homes.  Beer was purer to drink than water.

[Jane190]

Okay Thanks,

My Ancestor Henry Taylor b.1763 Lyneham,Wiltshire  was a Beer seller who married Martha Picket 24 Feb 1784 Lyneham. Later He came over to Warfield, Berkshire.


Regards

Jane

[ard]

Hello Jane,

This is an interesting entry in the Old Bailey records about our ancestor William Cooper (who, by the way, likely married Ann Shortland in 1813 at St Mary's Church Hanwell)
https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18301209-13-victim232&div=t18301209-13#highlight


Third Middlesex Jury, before Mr. Justice Alderson.

13. THOMAS GREEN was indicted for stealing, on the 5th of December , at Heston, 1 sheep, price 20s. , the property of William Cooper .

SECOND COUNT, for killing the said sheep, with intent to steal the carcase.

WILLIAM COOPER. I live in the parish of Heston, in the County of Middlesex , near Hounslow - I am a labourer, and keep a few sheep . On the 4th of December I had one hundred and two sheep, at ten o'clock in the morning, when I counted them; they were on Mr. Essex's land, at Acton - I count them every morning, and next morning on counting them, I missed one; I looked about, and about ten yards from the hurdles I found marks of a sheep having laid down and struggled - there was no blood; I traced the sheep right up the field, and there it had been laid down and its entrails taken out, at the upper end of the field, in the ditch; I found its entrails and one kidney there - it appeared to me as if it had been opened alive; there was some blood, and I traced footmarks right up the field with a tipped toe, and four nails inside the heel of the shoe - inside the tip there stood four square nails; it was a turnip field, and ploughed ground; I traced the man's feet on the ground - Michael Baker afterwards measured the same foot-marks; I showed them to him - I went to the bakehouse, and from there to the Magistrate; I went with a warrant to the prisoner's house, about three o'clock - I found in a cupboard, or kind of coal-hole, under the stairs, a sheep's pluck hanging up; I then found a bag in the same cupboard, and in that was a sheep's skin cut into a great many pieces - I found my own mark on one of the pieces; that was a C. - the prisoner then went up stairs; I told the constable to follow him, and called out, "Here is my sheep skin, I will swear to it, take him into custody" - the constable called out."Here is the meat," and in a pan up stairs we found all the sheep, except the shoulder and head; it was pieces of mutton - we found no kidney, except what I found in the field; the prisoner was at home when we first went there - he did not object to our searching; the constable was with me - he was taken into custody; we took the skin, and meat before the Magistrate- Baker has had possession of the skin; the prisoner is a labourer, and works for Mr. Irons, at Heston - I knew him before very well; he has a wife and two children.

MICHAEL BAKER . I am a constable and shoemaker. I was present when the prisoner's house was searched - the prosecutor's account of what was found is exactly correct; I went with him to look at the feot-marks in the field, and took the exact dimensions of their length - there were marks of four nails exactly in the centre of the heel; I told Mr. Trimmer, the Magistrate, of this, and the prisoner's shoes were lifted up; the dimensions exactly corresponded, and there were four nails exactly in the same place, on the heel - I have the pieces of the skin; when found it was nearly warm, as if recently killed; I also found in the house this cord and apron, both all over blood and wet, as if they had tied the sheep - they were wet when I found them; his shoes appeared to be nearly a new pair.

WILLIAM COOPER . Here is my mark on the skin - it is the skin of the sheep I lost: the mark was C. in a jagged wheel, but the jagged wheel was apparently cut off - the 4th of December was on a Saturday.

JOHN HOW . I am a labourer - the prisoner works at the same place as me. On Saturday night, the 4th of December, we were paid together, and came away from master's together; he turned into a gate for a necessary purpose, as he said - I did not see him any more that evening; I parted from him about a quarter of a mile from the field where the prosecutor's sheep were.

Prisoner's Defence. I left that young man for a necessary purpose - I ran after him to overtake him; there was a man before me with a parcel - he threw it down, and ran away; I took it up, put it into a cupboard close to where my coals are kept, and there it remained - I took the meat out, put it into a small dish, and sent it away from my children, that they should not meddle with it; the constable came next morning to search my house - I said he was welcome to do it; I opened the cupboard door where the skin was - the meat was standing in a dish up stairs.
[Dec. 11.] GUILTY - DEATH . Aged 24.


I hope that the poor young man was not actually put to death!