Author Topic: Help tracing German ancestry.  (Read 956 times)

Offline OliverEvans

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 6
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Help tracing German ancestry.
« on: Monday 17 April 17 15:01 BST (UK) »
I have been tracing back my family history. I have traced back my family name to a Karl Ernst Hermann Hirsch, who married Margarethe Sophie Kellermann in 1888.
Karl was also known as Hermann in many records, was born in 1863 in Oberstetten, Germany and lived and died (in 1927) in Canning Town.
Margarathe was also known as Margaret and Sophie, was born in
1870 (I think) and died in 1950 (I think).

I know that Karl came to England from Germany around the 1890's and set up a bakers called H Hirsch and Sons. The bakery business is still going today!

Now that I have tracked Karl (or Hermann) back to Oberstetten, I cannot seem to find any records of his family there.

Does anyone have any tips for me? I am fairly new to family history tracing and so any advice would be appreciated.

Regards,
Ollie

Offline paco

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,374
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help tracing German ancestry.
« Reply #1 on: Monday 17 April 17 16:05 BST (UK) »
If you have access to Ancestry worldwide you can select Germany, and then Oberstetten, but I had a quick look and could not see either Karl or Margarethe.
regards.
Essex/Dorset/Berks

Offline OliverEvans

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 6
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help tracing German ancestry.
« Reply #2 on: Monday 17 April 17 16:18 BST (UK) »
Thanks paco, I'll give it a try. One of the issues that I am having is that all of the family seemed to be known by different names! For example, Karl Ernst Hermann Hirsch is known as Karl in some records and Hermann in others. Hirsch is also sometimes spelled Hersch and was later anglicised to Hirst.


Offline aghadowey

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 48,854
    • View Profile
Re: Help tracing German ancestry.
« Reply #3 on: Monday 17 April 17 16:22 BST (UK) »
...  Karl Ernst Hermann Hirsch, who married Margarethe Sophie Kellermann in 1888.
Karl was also known as Hermann in many records, was born in 1863 in Oberstetten, Germany and lived and died (in 1927) in Canning Town.
Margarathe was also known as Margaret and Sophie, was born in
1870 (I think) and died in 1950 (I think).
I know that Karl came to England from Germany around the 1890's and set up a bakers...


If this is his marriage then the certificate should list father's name & occupation-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2D6M-YTD

Have you checked to see if he became a British citizen?
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline OliverEvans

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 6
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help tracing German ancestry.
« Reply #4 on: Monday 17 April 17 16:31 BST (UK) »
Thanks aghadowey. That is his marriage! We know that he married Margarethe in 1888, so that dates work out. What is really interesting, is that this is the same person:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QLMW-5MM

I'll start investigating his marriage more. He also did become a British citizen. We think it was at around 1890. I have found a postal record from 1896 with him listed in it, but it only says his name and nothing else.

Thanks!

Offline OliverEvans

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 6
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help tracing German ancestry.
« Reply #5 on: Monday 17 April 17 16:39 BST (UK) »
Update:

I have found the marriage record, however it does not appear to show Carl's parents name?

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?scan=1&r=81016071:2818&d=bmd_1491915269

Offline Bookbox

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,598
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help tracing German ancestry.
« Reply #6 on: Monday 17 April 17 17:02 BST (UK) »
What you are looking at there is only the index entry. The marriage record itself doesn't seem to be online. It was probably in a nonconformist church or a register office.

You will need to order a copy of marriage certificate to see the full details. Order from the GRO using the index reference you have found on FreeBMD (cost 9.25 including worldwide postage). Don't order through a commercial 3rd party, as that will be more costly and usually slower.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

These look like his naturalisation records, from 1913 ...
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4158799

Unfortunately, Ancestry's coverage for these records only goes up to 1912, so you will have to order a copy from the National Archives. If you're lucky you will get both parents' names and other useful background information. Usually well worth doing.

Offline OliverEvans

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 6
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help tracing German ancestry.
« Reply #7 on: Monday 17 April 17 17:16 BST (UK) »
Thankyou Bookbox.

I will get the documents ordered and see where they take me. When looking through the naturalisation records, I also came across this:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4158801

Gottlob Henne married Margaret Hirsch, who was the daughter of Karl! Gottlob was a renowned member of the St Paul's parish council and had close links with Dietrich Bonhoeffer. It's amazing what you can find out!

If it interests you, there was 2 key sides to the family: Henne and Hirsch. The Henne's were butchers and the Hirsch's were bakers. H Hirst (previously Hirsch) and Sons was founded around 1890 and is still open for business today in Ladywell, London!

Thanks again.

Offline Bookbox

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,598
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help tracing German ancestry.
« Reply #8 on: Monday 17 April 17 17:25 BST (UK) »
Gottlob Henne is in the RootsChat German Pork Butchers database ...

http://surname.rootschat.com/lexicon/dbsig/dbsig-quick-search.php?dbsig_num=2&p1_place=Hollenbach&view=2450

You might want to get in touch with RootsChat member limehouse79, if you haven't already?