William West married Anna Schultz in Hull 1916

[jillruss]

Thanks, Yorkslass.

I found that WW1 army record yesterday as well. Great minds! I thought it said Annie Ramsdale was 'no relation' but I see now that 'aunt' has been written in. I couldn't find anything of her in previous censuses either but will keep trying because if she really was his aunt it could be the clincher. However, I keep going back to the birthdate that Wm jun gave on the 1939 Register (29 Sept 1891, and surely he'd know his own dob?) - the Wm West from the army records is a bit older, though I had to work it out from his age given in the army records in years and days.

I also found a possible death for his father: William West died MarchQ 1893 Stepney RD aged 43.

I even found a possible (if that word didn't already exist, I'd have to invent it!) appearance for William jun on the 1911 census:

boarding in Holloway, London - William West - 19 - born Bow, London - music hall artist.

I'd really like that one to be correct!! 

I have to keep reminding myself that this is all on a flimsy 'horse dealer' connection to the Wm snr in Bow on the 1891 census and that Wm jun could could come from anywhere.

In the meantime I'm trying to persuade my friend to try and find a cousin who may or may not be still alive who is/was a bit older than him  and so might remember something about their grandfather.

[heywood]

Hi Jill,

Like you, no joy with census details.

On both FindMyPast and Ancestry, there's a William West, born 1891/2, regimental number 21826, East Yorkshire Regiment, whose occupation is shown as "Horseman"
He was discharged in April 1916, so before he was wed.

His address is shown as 1 Fanny's Terrace, Redbourne Street, Hull, with his aunt, an "Annie Ramsdale"

I've tried to follow her up, but no luck as yet.

A real mystery family 

Yorkslass

There is a marriage 1882 in Sculcoates
Walter Ramsdale and Anna Maria Hurst are on the same page.

1891 3942/126/2
Shows this family. She is Annie there.

Anna Maria dies in 1905  so can't be her.
Heywood

[jillruss]

Thanks anyway, Heywood. This is more or less the same pattern as I'm experiencing with William West - 1 step forward, 2 steps back!!

Going back to basics, I'm having real trouble marrying together the fact that the birth reg I found in Shoreditch in 1891 has no mother's maiden name on the GRO, yet he calls himself West and names his father as William West. (and I don't even have any proof that this is the correct birth!!)

I thought - aha! perhaps his parents married between William snr appearing on the 1891 census in Bow as a single man and William jun being born in September 1891. Guess what? Couldn't find a suitable marriage!!!

Brownie points for anyone who can find this William West (birth registered DecQ 1891 Shoreditch reg District) on the 1901 census.

Its driving me mad!!!!!

[Jomot]

I haven't found a connection to the surname West yet, but this may be Annie Ramsdale:

27 Sep 1884, Pocklington. By Licence
Herbert John Richard Ramsdale 24 Bachelor General Merchant Hull. Father: The late Robert Ramsdale, Farmer
Annie Davis Kerr  20 Spinster Pocklington Father: William Kerr, Rly Surveyor
Wit: John Wilkinson, Lizzie Stephenson

KERR, ANNIE  DAVIS   MMN: HARRISON - 1864  D Quarter in OF YORK  Volume 09D  Page 13 

1871 Pocklington
John Wilkinson 40  Head  Great Givendale, Yorkshire  Canal Agent   
Jane Wilkinson 36  Wife  Shipton, Yorkshire      
Annie D Kerr 6  Niece  York, Yorkshire  Scholar      
Thomas Kerr 20 Nephew  Londesbro, Yorkshire  Railway Clerk

I'm not sure where Annie is in 1881 but Thomas had married a Mary Elizabeth Askham nee Holmes and was a Railway Inspector.   Herbert Ramsdale also became a Railway Inspector for NER

There is a W West in the Hull Branch National Union Of Railwaymen records - occupation Goods Porter. Born c1890, admitted 1914 aged 24. 

[jillruss]

Thanks, Jomot. I've made a note of that one. However, I see Herbert and Annie Ramsdale were in Selby in 1911 - just 4 years before 'our' Annie Ramsdale was in Hull. Also there's a death in the Selby Reg District for Annie Ramsdale in 1933 aged 67 and Herbert is still in Selby on the 1939 Register, so probably not the right one.

I also found a death in the Hull Reg District for an Annie E. Ramsdale in 1930 aged 81. This is probably our Annie and it gives us a middle initial + her approx. age.  i.e. born about 1849.

It would be good to find her and at least eliminate from our enquiries (!) the William West who professed to be her nephew. I'm still worried that he's a bit too old to be the right one. My William gives his dob as 29 Sep 1891 but this William's army record dated 15 Dec 1915 has William's age as 24 years 4 months or, on another sheet, 24 yrs 120 days.  Its not 'out' by that much: perhaps I'm being too exact??

[Jomot]

After a bit more searching last night I came to the same conclusion about Annie Ramsdale, but I think I've found a better candidate.

There is a 1914 marriage in Hull between Frederick Ramsdale & Annie E Roberts.  They are also together on the 1911 census, and Annie's age fits with the death you have found.

[jillruss]

This looks promising, doesn't it?

I'm now going to try and find her original marriage to Mr Roberts and hope she had a sister!

Good one!

Nearly forgot to say - Walcott Street is less than half a mile from Redbourne St, where Annie lived in 1915 (army records for William West). Fanny's Terrace doesn't seem to exist any more.

[Jomot]

Fingers crossed, although I'm still not sure whether that army record says Aunt or No Relation 

The only other thought I had was regarding the National Union Of Railwaymen records I mentioned previously.  Outside of the Hull records the only other one I could find was in 1913 at the Poplar 1 branch, William West aged 22, Porter.  If I'm reading it correctly then he was excluded the same year for arrears, and then a William West, Porter turns up in Hull in 1914. 

Could a Lurryman & a Porter be the same thing?

The 1911 census has a William West, Railway Porter of the right age born & living in London, although I cant find him with any certainty before that 

[Yorkslass]

Afraid I've found another contender for Annie Ramsdale.

Ernest W Ramsdale married Annie Sherrif in Hull
1912, 3rd quarter, 9D 551

Both still together in 1939

I've also been thinking about the term "lurryman".
It's northern, isn't it?

Yorkslass