Author Topic: German Births ~ 1830  (Read 7699 times)

Offline curiousgeorge1

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German Births ~ 1830
« on: Wednesday 31 May 17 10:47 BST (UK) »
I have had help in the past with the Schumacher family.

With help I discovered his death in Liverpool in 1883 at 55 Hopwood St.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=534462.msg6236750#msg6236750

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=593424.msg4438630#msg4438630

I recently found him on a grave stone in Anfield Cemetery. This was a huge find. Prior to this I had no family connections for Henry Shumacker before his wedding to Catherine Johnson in Cork in 1844. I had some possible finds for him prior to 1844 but no proof.

I have plenty of information for this family going forward. I have them in various censuses, apart from the 1881 census when I have lost Henry & Catherine, but plenty for their children. They were in Glasgow in 1877 and he died in Liverpool in 1883. Probate says he was formerly of Hospital St Glasgow but I have no confirmation of that.

What I would like help with is solving the puzzle of the names on the grave stone, working out the relationships and the gold standard: the names of his parents.

Here are the words on the gravestone,

" In loving memory of Daniel Schumacher who died 11 Dec 1900 in his 68th year. Also Henry Schumacher who died 30th Nov 1883 aged 62 years. Also Metta Otten sister of the above who died 21st Sep 1901 aged 74 years. Rest in peace. Also Daniel Schumacher, nephew of the above who died 17th July 1902 aged 45yrs. Also Rebecca Schumacher who died 12 May 1944 aged 85yrs.'

To clarify, I have plenty of information going forward, especially for Henry, the direct line. I have traced Daniel & Rebecca going forward, including their children. I have the information from various censuses. I have probate for Daniel, Henry, Metta, Daniel & Rebecca.

I am stuck on proving the relationships on the gravestone. All were born in Germany.

Henry had a son Daniel but he died unmarried in Glasgow in 1877. Not the Daniel on the gravestone.

I have a Daniel in the 1861 census boarding at Ascot St, Liverpool, and Daniel & Daniel in the 1881 census at 16 Hopwood St, again both lodgers. The older Daniel is 49 and unmarried.

The question, how can I prove how Daniel, Henry and Metta are related, assuming they are, and how can I move forward with looking for their parents in Germany.

Various censuses give Hanover as place of birth. More than that I do not know. The men were sugar boilers. I have used the Bryan Mawer database.

This may seem obvious but this family have been a real conundrum, including not having records for their marriage in St Finn Barrs Cathedral Cork 1st Dec 1844. I do have a newspaper announcement which confirms this marriage ( with the name Sochomorker!)

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

In short:

Daniel Schumacher b ~ 1832 Germany
Henry Schumacher b ~ 1821 Hanover
Meta Otten b~ 1830 Germany
Daniel Schumacher b~ 1857 Germany
Rebecca  Wohlberg b 31 Dec 1858 Germany

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Offline garstonite

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oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

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Offline garstonite

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oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline curiousgeorge1

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Re: German Births ~ 1830
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 06 June 17 23:46 BST (UK) »
Thanks for this. Yes I have a Rebecca Schumacher on the gravestone but not able to prove the link with my direct ancestor

Offline garstonite

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Re: German Births ~ 1830
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 07 June 17 08:10 BST (UK) »
Thanks for this. Yes I have a Rebecca Schumacher on the gravestone but not able to prove the link with my direct ancestor

looks like a wife of Daniel to me ??
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline curiousgeorge1

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Re: German Births ~ 1830
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 07 June 17 15:52 BST (UK) »
Yes, thanks.

Daniel, husband of Rebecca. On gravestone Daniel, "nephew of the above".

I have the older Daniel, unmarried at 49. I have Henry, direct ancestor, I know all his children including a Daniel who died unmarried in 1877 I.e not this Daniel. Meta Otten is new to me. Her probate is to a daughter Adelaide Ditzfeld who she was staying with onwards the end of her life.

Nephew of the above. Who were his parents? Possibly not older Daniel, lodging with younger Daniel and unmarried at 49.

Not Henry, direct ancestor, children all accounted for.

If Metta Otten then why is she Otten and he Schumacher?

All born in Germany. Trying to connect the three older people to each other and younger Daniel and wife Rebecca to the three older people. Nephew of the above, one of the above or all three?

The search goes on  :)

Offline aghadowey

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Re: German Births ~ 1830
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 07 June 17 17:02 BST (UK) »
It sounds as though Meta Otten was a sister of Danie (1832) & Henry (1821). Death registration puts her as born c1827.

1891 census shows a William Ditzfeld with wife Adelaide (born c1862 Ireland)- could this be the same Adelaide? In 1901 census William Ditzfeld is shown as born Germany German Subject and ditto marks have been given to entire household including child who was possibbly born in England.

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Added- I can see a marriage (1914) for Adele Ditzfeld who might be the daughter Dele in 1901 census.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline curiousgeorge1

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Re: German Births ~ 1830
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 07 June 17 22:17 BST (UK) »
Good call on Dele, Adele. I have this family as Adelaide appeared as executor in Metta Otten probate.

Yes assumption of all three older generation being brothers and sisters but is it a fair working assumption that none were parents of the younger Daniel? Otherwise why would he be 'nephew of the above'.

With all being born in Germany and with English death certificates not giving parents names I am a little stuck with finding parents of the older generation and indeed the younger Daniel.

Following up Adelaide born c1862 in Ireland also tricky but I will follow up.

Offline Rena

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Re: German Births ~ 1830
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 08 June 17 02:10 BST (UK) »
Have you tried the Anglo German Family History Society in case your ancestor attended a German Protestant church (e.g. the Ev. Lutheran Church)? 

German church books record far more than those kept by churches in the UK.  With luck the Liverpool Lutheran church will have held the burial service, which should give the full two or three given names and not just the name he used (the first one or two given names being names donated by baptism sponsors/godparents, who themselves could be relatives).

Here's a list of all the existing German Lutheran church books that the anglo german FHS have:-
http://www.agfhs.org/site/documents/Tracing%20Your%20German%20Ancestors_Part%20I.pdf

I was lucky enough to find my grandmother's baptism recorded in the Hull Lutheran church and that's when I discovered that my gt.grandfather's name wasn't the one he used on every census but 3 totally different given names, the record also showed that my grandmother had been named in favour of her grandmother and I'd hit gold when the church also recorded her g/mother's full maiden name and the town where she was born in Hannover.
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy<br />MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell<br />Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie<br />Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell<br />Perthshire: Brown Ferguson<br />Wales: McCarthy, Thomas<br />England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells<br />Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke