Author Topic: Migration within UK 1780s  (Read 1475 times)

Offline Pennines

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Migration within UK 1780s
« on: Saturday 17 June 17 14:07 BST (UK) »
Probably this is a silly question, but never mind!

I was wondering if anyone knew whether people migrated fair distances by river in the 1780s/1790s. I know they travelled by canal, but the particular case in which I am interested was pre a convenient canal.

The family concerned moved from North Yorkshire (Brompton on Swale, near Richmond) - to the small township of Ribchester in Lancs. Now that would be a very difficult journey in the 1780s by foot or horse and cart, due to the hilly nature of the terrain. However Ribchester is on the River Ribble - which rises near Hawes, North Yorks - and actually runs through Ribchester. I therefore wondered if the family migrated by boat.

I know I will never know for sure -- but surprisingly I have never read anything about people travelling by river between places (my education is sadly lacking!). I just wondered if anyone knew if this was common practice.
Places of interest;
Lancashire, West Yorkshire, Southern Ireland, Scotland.

Offline jim1

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Re: Migration within UK 1780s
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 17 June 17 16:22 BST (UK) »
Having bargemasters in the family I can say that yes people did travel that way.
If you wanted to travel with belongings then there was only 2 ways, by waggon or river.
Pre canal days sailing barges known as trows were common.
I know that later at the start of the Industrial Revolution agents actively recruited families & moved them by river & canal.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
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Offline Pennines

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Re: Migration within UK 1780s
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 17 June 17 16:47 BST (UK) »
Hi Jim,

Thank you so much. I did know about people being moved by Poor Law Guradians from the South to the North by canal - however I had never thought of movement for long journeys PRIOR to canals being built.

Your information about bargemen - and 'trows' (which I've never heard of) is very useful.

Many thanks indeed.
Places of interest;
Lancashire, West Yorkshire, Southern Ireland, Scotland.

Offline andrewalston

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Re: Migration within UK 1780s
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 17 June 17 16:54 BST (UK) »
The Ribble only becomes navigable quite a lot closer to the sea - we are talking very shallow draught, such as canoes, upstream from Ribchester, unless the river was in flood, and then nobody in their right mind would wand to be in ANY boat. Add in the complications of the many weirs built to power mills, and it becomes awkward even for those with a kayak.

The Ribble does not seem to have been "improved" for goods traffic in the same way as the Douglas at Wigan.

The Turnpikes would be the most likely route for long-distance travel in the 1780s. People walked a lot further then than you or I would consider, and would carry a minimum of possessions. Only the rich would "move house" as we do today. They would sell the furniture and buy fresh at the far end of their trip.

Looking at ALSTON in south Ribble area, ALSTEAD and DONBAVAND/DUNBABIN etc. everywhere, HOWCROFT and MARSH in Bolton and Westhoughton, PICKERING in the Whitehaven area.

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Offline Rena

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Re: Migration within UK 1780s
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 17 June 17 18:03 BST (UK) »
Swaledale is famous for its swaledale sheep and as Ribchester was an extremely important town and market, I think possibly your ancestors would have followed the old drovers trails (sometimes called packhorse trails) which earlier had been Roman Roads.
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline Pennines

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Re: Migration within UK 1780s
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 17 June 17 19:39 BST (UK) »
Rena and andrewalston -- Thank you both for your information. I have to say my first thought had been pack horse trails - but then I realised just how hilly the journey would have been -- and the Ribble sprang to mind. I didn't know about the difficulties with navigation further east from the coast. (Shows how little I know about my own county!)

I'll never actually know how they journeyed anyway -- but to add to this -- after giving birth to 3 children in Ribchester - the mother at least returned to North Yorks and had a 4th child baptised there. She or they then returned to Ribchester where they had another 4 children.

Makes today's commuting pale into insignificance! Thank you for your help everyone. I appreciate your input.
Places of interest;
Lancashire, West Yorkshire, Southern Ireland, Scotland.

Offline AntonyMMM

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Re: Migration within UK 1780s
« Reply #6 on: Monday 19 June 17 15:59 BST (UK) »
I'd be looking for the connection that made them make that particular journey - it seems unlikely to be a random destination, I would expect some sort of family (or other) link.

I have ancestors from that area , and had family living in Ribchester until quite recently -  the Ribble would definitely not be a navigable option.


Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Migration within UK 1780s
« Reply #7 on: Monday 19 June 17 16:33 BST (UK) »
2 branches of my ancestors moved to Ribchester parish at the end of the 1790s. One branch were stonemasons from Cockerham parish, drawn by the expansion of the stone industry to Longridge. The other was headed by a nailer from Standish, near Wigan. Nail manufacture was the other main industry in Longridge.
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Offline Pennines

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Re: Migration within UK 1780s
« Reply #8 on: Monday 19 June 17 18:20 BST (UK) »
Thank you Antony and Maiden Stone.

(Antony - if you had family in the area - if you haven't already seen it you may find the following website of interest
https://e-voice.org.uk/ribchesterhistory/assets/documents/ribchester-history-trail-2  )

I am actually wondering if this particular family moved because of religion. It is normally for employment, but the family were Roman Catholic - and Lancashire was far more RC than Yorkshire. Where they had lived - and Ribchester - both fell under the Archdeaconry of Richmond - and they moved at a time when it was still illegal for Catholics to have public places of worship.

Many of the gentry in the Ribble Valley had given over space in their homes for RC worship. In addition a 'Barn' Church (RC) - St Peter and St Paul's was built in 1789 - although it is believed that the congregation existed there before then. The church was built to look like a barn -- (ironically the laws against Roman Catholics were eased shortly afterwards.)

Even some Alms Houses had been built in the area in 1726 from a bequest. When the upkeep was taken over by another family in the local area  -- it was with the proviso that these houses were for RC Widows and Spinsters only.

Unfortunately the RC parish registers I can trace don't give any occupations for the family I am researching -- but in the 1820s they moved to Blackburn and took over an Iron Foundry there! I can't imagine where they learnt this trade in the small townships where they had lived, but maybe the sons had been sent as apprentices to larger places.

Thank you everyone for your input.
Places of interest;
Lancashire, West Yorkshire, Southern Ireland, Scotland.