Author Topic: Help with a census mystery  (Read 6301 times)

Offline methodmoran

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Help with a census mystery
« on: Monday 19 June 17 02:53 BST (UK) »
Hi guys,

I wondered if anybody here would be willing to give their thought on a mystery I cant explain in the census records.

I am trying to trace 3 x Great Grandparents, William Smith and Marion Paterson.

According to the 1911 census, William was born around 1835 in Muirkirk, Ayr, Scotland.
As for his wife Marion, the 1891, 1901 and 1911 census have her being born between 1833 and 1835, in London.

There is marriage record in 1852 between a William Smith and a Marion Paterson registered in New Monkland,Lanark,Scotland. The oral tradition in the family was that side did infact come from Scotland so this fits and I know William was certainly born in Scotland.

They had my great great grandmother Annie in 1867, born in Consett, Durham and the family then settled in Jarrow, Tyneside.

Yet all the previous census records that seem to be William have him married to a Marion (same approx birth year), yet her place of birth pre-1891 is always given as Scotland.

The options I have in my mind at present are that I have the wrong pre-1891 couple, although the children all match. William re-married another Marion of the same age. Or Marion changed the place of birth on the later census records, which I cant explain.

Any help would or suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I am a novice with such things.


Offline Ruskie

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Re: Help with a census mystery
« Reply #1 on: Monday 19 June 17 03:18 BST (UK) »
Welcome to rootschat methodmoran.  :)

I have a few questions I'm afraid.  :)

Who is Marion living with in the pre 1891 censuses? Where is she living?
Which pre 1891 censuses do you have her on?
Do any of the censuses specify a precise place of birth in Scotland?
Do any of the censuses which give her place of birth as London, specify a parish or more precise area of London?
Do you know the names of your Marion's parents?

Without looking at the family on any census I can think of a couple of reasons for the different places of birth given (presuming William did not marry a second Marion) - such as Marion was born in London but went to Scotland when an infant so believed she was born there. The answers to the questions I've asked might clarify, otherwise I would only be speculating.  :)

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Help with a census mystery
« Reply #2 on: Monday 19 June 17 03:41 BST (UK) »
Welcome from me too  ;)

To follow on from Ruskie posting while I was thinking  ;D...

"According to the 1911 census, William was born around 1835 in Muirkirk, Ayr, Scotland.
As for his wife Marion, the 1891, 1901 and 1911 census have her being born between 1833 and 1835, in London.

There is marriage record in 1852 between a William Smith and a Marion Paterson registered in New Monkland,Lanark,Scotland. The oral tradition in the family was that side did infact come from Scotland so this fits and I know William was certainly born in Scotland
"

I have a theory & a couple of questions....

They seem very young when married i.e. depending on where her parents were born she may have assumed she was born same place?
My daughter was born in a different County from where I live & brought her up but when she was younger she assumed she was born in this Town/County. It's not something we give much thought to in reality when we're young.

The birth of your g g/mother in 1867 is very late from the time of marriage in 1852.

Have you established any births of any older siblings on census' or other?

Have you checked the births of all children for the occupation of William?

Do they all match as William & Smith are both very common names.

Are you sure you do have all 'their' children matching their places of birth on census' against their birth certs. with Dad's Occ. against census'?

Annie

 
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Help with a census mystery
« Reply #3 on: Monday 19 June 17 03:48 BST (UK) »
I forgot to ask...can you give the names of children you have in order from eldest to youngest with names/dates/places of birth please as Scots had a naming pattern often used which may help to work out William & Marion's parentage?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"


Offline maddys52

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Re: Help with a census mystery
« Reply #4 on: Monday 19 June 17 03:53 BST (UK) »
Are you sure Marion's surname was PATERSON? I can't see any Annie SMITH (or similar) registered in Durham in 1867 with that mother's maiden name.  ???

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Help with a census mystery
« Reply #5 on: Monday 19 June 17 03:54 BST (UK) »
Hi Annie. As the OP is off line I decided to have a quick look for the family in a couple of censuses. (The reason I asked the questions about the censuses was to save me going through pages of Smiths as the OP already has that information.)  ;)

Anyway, I couldn't easily spot the family in 1871 or 1881 in England, which I find odd. I think I will wait till methodmoran returns before continuing the search.

 :)

Added: the plot thickens maddys52.  ;)


Offline Ruskie

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Re: Help with a census mystery
« Reply #6 on: Monday 19 June 17 04:03 BST (UK) »
Paterson is a Scottish surname is it not Annie?

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Help with a census mystery
« Reply #7 on: Monday 19 June 17 04:07 BST (UK) »
Maddy & Ruskie,

The surname itself puts me off searching, just as I'm put off searching for my own ancestry MacDonald  ;D

However...

It crossed my mind, depending on the 'actual' info. on the census' (was it an OCR transcription or an actual copy)? & how it's been read/perceived, could this have been a mis-spelling of Loudoun, Ayrshire as London  ???

Annie


Added...Got your 'Red Alert' Ruskie...Yes it is & I have the name Paterson in my own tree around Lanarkshire.
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Help with a census mystery
« Reply #8 on: Monday 19 June 17 04:16 BST (UK) »
Are you sure Marion's surname was PATERSON? I can't see any Annie SMITH (or similar) registered in Durham in 1867 with that mother's maiden name.  ???

Maddy,

She may have been plain Ann/Anne & surname may have been misheard/misquoted, i.e. Paterson/Patterson/Pattison?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"