Author Topic: No Death Registration on GRO or the Irish equivalent in 1912  (Read 1062 times)

Offline Rena

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Re: No Death Registration on GRO or the Irish equivalent in 1912
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 03 August 17 18:10 BST (UK) »
Poor man.  I wonder if he was tried in court.

Attempting suicide was illegal and a punishable crime.  The UK decriminalised suicide in 1961 and Eire followed suit in 1993.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1993/act/11/enacted/en/print

CRIMINAL LAW (SUICIDE) ACT, 1993
AN ACT TO ABOLISH THE OFFENCE OF SUICIDE
This Act shall come into operation one month after the date of its passing.
Suicide shall cease to be a crime.
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy
MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell
Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie
Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell
Perthshire: Brown Ferguson
Wales: McCarthy, Thomas
England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells
Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

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Offline Chapbrook

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Re: No Death Registration on GRO or the Irish equivalent in 1912
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 03 August 17 21:52 BST (UK) »
Poor man.  I wonder if he was tried in court.

Attempting suicide was illegal and a punishable crime.  The UK decriminalised suicide in 1961 and Eire followed suit in 1993.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1993/act/11/enacted/en/print

CRIMINAL LAW (SUICIDE) ACT, 1993
AN ACT TO ABOLISH THE OFFENCE OF SUICIDE
This Act shall come into operation one month after the date of its passing.
Suicide shall cease to be a crime.

Hi

Thanks for that link. I'm surprised how relatively recently it was decriminalised although a quick check online shows that it is still a crime in several countries outside Europe.

There was no reference in the asylum documents to suggest that he was charged with an offence. I do know though that his online army record refers to a Court of Inquiry held before he was discharged. (I assume that was an internal army investigation). Unfortunately, the result/outcome was not detailed amongst the other online records. Presumably, there will be a record of this held somewhere. I need to dig deeper!

Regards
Spence Chaplin

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Offline Rena

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Re: No Death Registration on GRO or the Irish equivalent in 1912
« Reply #11 on: Friday 04 August 17 14:27 BST (UK) »
Poor man.  I wonder if he was tried in court.

Attempting suicide was illegal and a punishable crime.  The UK decriminalised suicide in 1961 and Eire followed suit in 1993.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1993/act/11/enacted/en/print

CRIMINAL LAW (SUICIDE) ACT, 1993
AN ACT TO ABOLISH THE OFFENCE OF SUICIDE
This Act shall come into operation one month after the date of its passing.
Suicide shall cease to be a crime.

Hi

Thanks for that link. I'm surprised how relatively recently it was decriminalised although a quick check online shows that it is still a crime in several countries outside Europe.

There was no reference in the asylum documents to suggest that he was charged with an offence. I do know though that his online army record refers to a Court of Inquiry held before he was discharged. (I assume that was an internal army investigation). Unfortunately, the result/outcome was not detailed amongst the other online records. Presumably, there will be a record of this held somewhere. I need to dig deeper!

Regards
Spence Chaplin

I know of two people detained in England due to mental instability.  Early this century my pal's son was brought before a court for being "troublesome" in a chemist shop. He'd been a regular soldier serving in the army but since arriving in civvy street his mother noticed a change in his behaviour  The judge sentenced him to 6 months in jail and thereafter to be detained under the Mental Health Act.  Fortunately he was discharged from the sanitarium after being treated for PTSD (shell shock).

The other instance was a married female cousin of my mother. Their generation was born at the outset of the 20th century.  She'd had three children and had sunk into a depression when her husband and two doctors signed a document that put her into what was termed "the loony bin" when I was young. Her siblings thought she had what was termed "the baby blues" and after treatment they tried to get her released but in those days the husband had to sign the release papers and he refused to do so.  During the following years the family visited her in the asylum and as time passed it became obvious to them that she had become confused and institutionalised and could never live an independent life in the outside world.
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy
MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell
Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie
Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell
Perthshire: Brown Ferguson
Wales: McCarthy, Thomas
England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells
Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline akawither

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Re: No Death Registration on GRO or the Irish equivalent in 1912
« Reply #12 on: Monday 26 November 18 20:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi. Im a new member and came across your discussion of Grangegorman. I think i can beat your 46 years. My grandfather seems to have been held there for 55 years until 1986. Can you explain how you got access to your relatives records. I have emailed the grangegorman site with no luck. Did you get photocopies sent to you or did you visit Dublin?
Thanks for any help
Bernard

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Offline Chapbrook

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Re: No Death Registration on GRO or the Irish equivalent in 1912
« Reply #14 on: Monday 26 November 18 23:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi. Im a new member and came across your discussion of Grangegorman. I think i can beat your 46 years. My grandfather seems to have been held there for 55 years until 1986. Can you explain how you got access to your relatives records. I have emailed the grangegorman site with no luck. Did you get photocopies sent to you or did you visit Dublin?
Thanks for any help
Bernard

Hi Bernard

The link posted is the one that I followed during my search. The whole process seemed rather convoluted at the time and there were several conditions I had to satisfy to comply with the FOI requests, but with patience (and as long as records are in fact held for your grandfather) then you should eventually be able to see them.

In my case, the national archives told me that whilst they held the collection for the Richmond Lunatic Asylum, the hospital itself still acted as 'data controllers' and consequently I would have to submit my enquiry to them. They gave full contact details.

I must say that everybody I corresponded with at the National Archive and the hospital adminstrators were exceptionally helpful at all times. I wasn't even charged for the photo copies which they eventually sent!

Good luck in your search and if you want any further help please let me know

Regards, Spence Chaplin