Jane/Jean Pirie in Marnoch

[Bosconermal]

My 2nd great grandmother was Jane Pirie, daughter of James Pirie and Ann Hendry of Marnoch. Jane died a pauper in Forglen in 1905 where she gives her parents. Her age at death is 75, which points to 1830 as the year of her birth. The same birth year is also pointed to in the 1871 and 1861 censuses where she is living with her father James Pirie in Marnoch, and in the 1851 census (as Jean) where she is living with both parents and 5 siblings including her sister Anne (born 1833). She gave birth to my great grandfather in 1851 but didn't marry the father (who scarpered to the U.S. and had a different family there).

She is not in the 1841 census, when she would have been 11, but the younger sister Ann is listed age 9. The surname is misspelled "Perrie" Where is Jane? It's possible that she was just somewhere else when the census taker showed up, but there is a bit more mystery.

I can find a record of birth for all her siblings, but nothing for Jane. There is, however, another Ann, born in Marnoch on 19 December 1829. I know it is fairly common when a child died to give a subsequent child the same name, but I can't find a death record for the 1829 Ann. This is an odd thought, but could Jane and 1829 Ann be the same person? If not, where did Jane come from?

Thanks for any help or advice!

[CaroleW]

Her parents married 14.2.1829 as per Family Search

[CaroleW]

From FS - Totally wrong location but .....................

Name    Jane Pirie
Gender    Female
Christening Date    14 May 1830
Christening Place    RHYNIE AND ESSIE,ABERDEEN,SCOTLAND
Birth Date    08 May 1830
Father's Name    John Pirie
Mother's Name    Anne Henrie

This is an odd thought, but could Jane and 1829 Ann be the same person?

James and Ann had another daughter Ann in 1833  per FS

[Bosconermal]

Hi Carole:

I saw that one, but the father is given as John Pirie not James. The Anne Henrie name is very like Ann Hendry and gave me pause, but if Anne Hendry is the same person she gave birth to 1829 Ann in December 1829 and couldn't have had another by May 1830.

One would think that if Ann Hendry had 1829 Ann in December 1829 and got pregnant right away (unlikely), then the earliest possible birthdate for Jane if she went full-term would be September 1830 and probably actually a little later. If premature and maybe a little bit earlier.

[GR2]

Just checked the published Marnoch monumental inscriptions and there is nothing for James Pirie and Ann Hendry.

[J11]

Re the absense on the 1841 census, it would not be uncommon for an 11 year old to be sent away from home to work as a domestic or farm servant.  She is probably on the 1841 living and working in someone else's household.

[Forfarian]

Forget about FS; the pre-1855 indexes on Scotland's People have most of the information that FS has, and they don't contain any of the imaginary information that can creep into FS.

John Pirie and Ann Henry in Rhynie and Essie had
John, baptised 24 July 1828
Jane, baptised 14 May 1830
James, baptised 9 September 1832
Betty, baptised 2 August 1835
Margaret, baptised 22 August 1840
all in Rhynie and Essie

James Pirie and Ann Henry in Marnoch had
Ann, baptised 19 February 1829
Christian, baptised 20 July 1830
Ann, baptised 9 February 1833
Alexander, baptised 1 October 1837
James, baptised 23 August 1840
all in Marnoch, so these are obviously two completely different families.

I wonder if maybe we have a clerical error in 1829 by the Session Clerk, who wrote the mother's name instead of the child's name in the Register of Baptisms?

[Fordyce]

If you calculate the months between the five known births you get 38, 29, 26, 34. You might consider splitting the 38 into 19+19, thus predicting an intermediate child (thus: Jane) born say 6-1831 but simply missing from the OPR.

1841 census brings up one possibility for a Jane Pirie age 9 or 10:-
Piece: SCT1841/146 Place: Alvah -Banffshire Enumeration District: 3
Civil Parish: Alvah Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 3 Page: 12
Address: Bagra
CHRISTIE       John       M       57       Farmer        Outside Census County (1841)           
CHRISTIE       Janet       F       59               Outside Census County (1841)           
CHRISTIE       Janet (Junr)       F       20               Banffshire           
CHRISTIE       Charles       M       18               Banffshire           
PIRIE       Alexander       M       68       Ag Labourer        Banffshire           
MORRISON       John       M       25       Ag Labourer        Banffshire           
WILSON       John       M       15       Ag Labourer        Banffshire           
PIRIE       Jean       F       10       Ag Labourer        Banffshire
She could be your Jane Pirie born (say) 5-1831.

There is a Jane Pirie age 11 in Keith:-
Piece: SCT1841/159 Place: Keith -Banffshire Enumeration District: 1
Civil Parish: Keith Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 1 Page: 9
Address: Cross Street
FRASER   John       M       15   Tin Smith Appren    Banffshire           
FRASER   Elisabeth   F       25   Ag Labourer        Banffshire           
PIRIE       Jane       F       11                   Banffshire   
She could be your Jane Pirie, the clerk having made an error in the OPR, as forfarian suggests.

The Alvah connection is noteworthy, because sisters Ann & Christian Pirie married brothers John & Robert Riddoch and both families farmed/crofted at Deuchries in Alvah.

I've just been chasing around Riddochs in Banffshire. Although these particular Riddochs are not related to me, Ann Pirie's husband John Riddoch had an illeg child George Riddoch in 1849 in Deuchries who in turn had an illeg child by Jane Scott in 1869 in Rothiemay - and she is related to me via her mother Jane Scott.

[Bosconermal]

Interesting idea. It would sure help to find a record of the 1829 Ann as proof that she actually existed and is therefore not a misnamed Jane. It would reduce my options!