John Joyce of Beckington, 21 Bath Road, Beckington, Somerset.

[Moffitt77]

This is odd:-

'Joyce, on Matilda Hayes to Sydney from Viti Levu, July 1887. I have not recorded the source, but of course it could be a son or brother? Now I am curious.

[ShaunJ]

Death of Capt D Joyce in Fiji, 1884:

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP18840818.2.8?query=d%20joyce

[Moffitt77]

I have spent the day 'IN' Jersey. It is perhaps a foolish thing to do, but I have clustered the Joyce names and created a feasible tree. The first James Joyce is, I feel, a member of the Beckington group, if perhaps a generation before John Joyce b1778, although two sons in a family could be that far apart in age. He appears to have been born about 1760, having died in 1839, aged 79. It is the seafaring nature of the family which encourages me, plus the DNA links which we are checking.

James Joyce is recorded as from Newcastle on Tyne in one marriage record, but that is not proven by one mention alone.

James could possibly have been married 3 times:-

Marriage 1

Wife - Isabella Watson, buried 19 Sept 1822, aged 47.

Children
Thomas Thatcher Joyce, buried 23 September 1850, and born c 1795.
                 No family recorded.
William Henry Joyce, married 4 January 1829, Mary Johnson.
                  (William's three children were:-
                 James John, buried 6 Sept 1830,
                 John Edward, buried 7 Mar 1835,
                 William Henry, buried 17 Nov 1836.)

Daniel Joyce, buried 9 Mar 1810,
George Joyce, bp 18 Mar 1812, buried 12 Dec 1820,
Edward Joyce, bp 1814,
Daniel Joyce, by 13 Jan 1816.

Marriage 2

Wife - Nancy Giot, married 8 Jan 1824, but the following children are recorded to Anne La Source. Nancy is a diminutive of Anne, and a search proved that the full version of the surname is Giot Dit La Source. Anne died 16 June 1824.

Children
Mary Ann bp 28 May 1824
James bp 16 June 1827. Mother died the same day.

Marriage 3

Wife - Elizabeth Le Brun, married 9 September 1828.

Children

John George, bp 15 Jun 1831, but buried as George John 26 sept 1832.
Elizabeth Mary, bp 21 Sept 1834,
Elise buried 7 June 1836,
Isabelle Emily, bp 28 Feb 1836 (Edited - Isabelle is the daughter of William and Mary above. Sorry)

These are all of the Joyce names that I can find in Jersey. It seems logical that they are one family.

Hypothesis

We know that Daniel Joyce came to New Zealand from Jersey. He had a family here and appears to have left the country in a hurry on his ship, Matilda Haynes. He is said to have died in Fiji in 1884, but records show a Daniel Joyce as Captain of the ship, Matilda Haynes again, on a voyage to Sydney in July 1887

Daniel's voyages could be the reason why we can not be certain of any ship being the one that brought JPJ to New Zealand.

William Henry Joyce could be the William Henry Joyce who was agent for Daniel's shipping business in New Zealand

James Joyce, born 16 jun 1827, son of James b 1760, and shown as 14 in 1841, appears very likely to be our JPJ. His French stepmother, Elizabeth Le Brun would explain why he was fluent in French, and JPJ was described as having spent much of his youth in the Channel Islands.

When James senior died, his widow, Elizabeth would have still been young. Her parents Jacques Le Brun and Sara Le Breton, married in 2 November 1805, so she probably married again, being only about thirty when James died. Could a man called Parker have become JPJ's stepfather?

I am now looking for a second marriage for Elizabeth Le Brun Joyce. Maybe it was to a Parker - my usual question.

There were a number of Parker families. The will of one James Parker interests me, even if it is a bit early at 1709. It may, however, have been written long before death, or it could indicate other members of the next generations. It is interesting, because he is described as 'late of Southhampton'. Amongst the rest of the wills listed, is one for a Benjamin Parkes (often a bad spelling for Parker) of 16 Granville Street, who died 26 September 1868.

All speculation, but James Joyce's daughter Mary Ann Joyce could be the person recorded as Mary Ann Parker. Eliza Ann Parker could be James Joyce's daughter Elizabeth, and William Alexander Parker could belong to the new marriage. These were the only Parker names I could find. Just guessing really.

I seem to be becoming obsessed with the Parker name, but I AM aware that it could be an invention by JPJ

[ShaunJ]

James Joyce, born 16 jun 1827

Remember that is a baptism date. He was born June 3rd 1827.

However there is a merchant navy record of his death at sea aboard the Ulysses in 1845 https://goo.gl/eiUjnh So not that James Joyce.

[ShaunJ]

Did you notice in Jersey a James Oliver Parker baptised 19 April 1829? Son of James and Susan

EDIT scrap that idea too - he died in December 1829.

[Moffitt77]

Oooooooooooooooh! And again!

My husband says that I am like a big deflated balloon.

Thank you for these details before I launch into a deeper search. I was beginning to wonder if there could be a connection between the names LeBrun and Brunton. So much else fitted.

There were also positive glimmers when the French names were fed into the DNA matches. Better leave that in the meantime, till we delve deeper and avoid false matches.

I don't suppose that there was yet another child, James, born to Elizabeth Le Brun?

I thought that I had seen all of the Joyce and Parker names on Jersey, but obviously not. I will nit be able to resist having a further look at Jersey.

I still have not found my first recorded reference to Joyce on the Martha Haynes in 1887. It was probably a brother or a mistake in the date. Sorry if it looked as if I did not believe you. Another mistake I made earlier was in confusing the Isle of Man with the Isle of Wight. I do know the difference.

Right, back to Portsea.

[Moffitt77]

Back to the drawing board.

I think that I mentioned looking for a young James Joyce who was born on the same day as JPJ in Portsea, to James Joyce, Limerick, and Agnes Pearce, Portsea, but was never found near his parents again, well, by me anyway. I traced the movements of both his mother and father, through census and Royal Navy papers. That was interesting. James Joyce Senior was on a different ship about every eighteen months or two years. I thought that he may have died when HMS Challenger was wrecked in 1835, but although he had been on this ship at the time of marriage in 1833, he was not present then, and he died in 1851.

I had found a second James Joyce interwoven with this one (wife Jane, son George) and presume he was the one who was severely wounded on board HMS SANSPAREIL in October 1854. I had thought this to be the Portsea James and was excited to find that he had also been aboard HMS Britannia in 1851, because another grandfather of mine was also on that ship in Crimea. A genealogist's dream seemed to be coming true when I found that Commander C G Grylls of HMS SANSPAREIL had kept a journal for September-October 1854 (JOD/96) and an address for a Royal Museums, Greenwich, library site of archivesandlibrary.rmg.co.uk or collections.rmg.co.uk

Then I discovered that the one I was seeking had died in 1851. I suppose I should follow up on this second James Joyce one day, but another search also grew out of this one.

When I was looking for the missing son of James and Agnes above, I looked for young men away from home. One was James Joyce, born/bp 1834 Chatton, Northumberland. This looks interesting because James Joyce of Jersey gave Newcastle as an homebase during one wedding.

James Joyce, boarder, Eng/Wales Census 1851, age 17, single. Residence West gate, Northumberland, Sunderland Street, Occupation Joiner, Others Margaret Smith, William Smith, Joseph Moffoot,  Reg District Newcastle on Tyne, p33, reg no HO107, peice/folio 2404/308/

You can see why it also interested me - yet another way of spelling Moffitt.

Another entry for this James Joyce states chr 11 August 1833, born Chatton, Northumberland. Father James Joyce. Mother Eleanor.

[aartika]

Have you checked John Joyce's will (1865)?

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills

John Joyce 1779-1865 was my 4x Great Grandfather. I have researched this family extensively and I have a copy of this will.

I have a great deal of info an all the children, if you are interested.

John Joyce and Mary Bailey had ten children:

John JOYCE was born 1779, Beckington, Somerset; was christened 11 Jun 1785, Saint George's Church, Beckington, Somerset; died 18 Oct 1865, Beckington, Somerset; was buried After Oct 18 1865, Baptist Chapel Burial Ground, Berkley Lane, Beckington, Somerset.

    John
married Mary BAILY 28 Mar 1799 (by License), Saint George's Church, Beckington, Somerset. Mary (daughter of William BAILY and Sarah ALFORD)

was born 1779, Beckington, Somerset; was christened 4 Apr 1779, Saint George's Church, Beckington, Somerset; died Mar 1863, Beckington, Somerset; was buried , Baptist Chapel Burial Ground, Berkley Lane, Beckington, Somerset.


    Children:

Jane JOYCE   was born 1800, Beckington, Somerset; died 1876, Chard.Somerset.

James Bailey JOYCE   was born 1802, Beckington, Somerset; died 12 Sep 1873, Beckington, Somerset; was buried , Baptist Chapel Burial Ground, Berkley Lane, Beckington, Somerset.

Daniel Bailey JOYCE   was born 1807, Beckington, Somerset; died 14 Oct 1890, Beckington, Somerset; was buried 18 Oct 1890, Baptist Chapel Burial Ground, Berkley Lane, Beckington, Somerset.

William JOYCE   was born 1808, Beckington, Somerset; died Dec 1853, Mells, Somerset; was buried 6 Dec 1853, Saint Andrew, Mells, Somerset.

Lydia JOYCE   was born 1810, Beckington, Somerset; died 4 Dec 1890, 12 Southbrooke Road, Lee, Kent.

Mary JOYCE   was born 1812, Beckington, Somerset; died 24 Feb 1888, Brentford, Middlesex; was buried , North Bradley, Wiltshire.

Jesse Powell JOYCE   was born 1816, Beckington, Somerset; was christened , Not Known; died 18 Jun 1859, 8 Lorrimore Street, Newington, Surrey; was buried 24 Jun 1859, All Saints Cemetery, Nunhead, Linden Grove, Southwark, Greater London / Surrey .

Felix Carey Bailey JOYCE   was born 1816, Beckington, Somerset; died 29 May 1846, Naunton, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire; was buried 10 Jun 1846, Naunton Baptist Chapel, Naunton, Gloucestershire.

John Wallace JOYCE   was born 1819, Beckington, Somerset; died 8 Jun 1881, Beckington, Somerset; was buried , Baptist Chapel Burial Ground, Berkley Lane, Beckington, Somerset.

Ann Vincent JOYCE   was born 1822, Beckington, Somerset; died 1870, Croydon, Surrey; was buried 1870, Baptist Chapel Burial Ground, Berkley Lane, Beckington, Somerset.



re James Bailey Joyce - he had two children with his first wife, Jane Wace - Anna Wace Joyce and Alexander Joyce. Both children emigrated to New Zealand:

Alexander remained in Christchurch, NZ, married twice and had two children - Alaric Joyce (mother Emily Hayes) and Alexander Charles Clifford Joyce (mother May Ann Clifford).

Anna married (in NZ) her second cousin, William Joyce, with whom she had 10 children. They returned to England c1873.

I haven't come across a James Parker Joyce in my research as yet.

[aartika]

The death notice of James Bailey Joyce appeared in New Zealand newspapers. For this reason I want to build a complete picture of his family, since his could be the family of James Parker JOYCE, born c1834 in Southern England. James Parker Joyce came to NZ c1850.

John Joyce, (1779 - 1865) married Mary Bailey (1780 - 1863) in 1799.
Lived at 21 Bath Road, Beckington, Somerset.

Ten children.
I would like to compete this list and know the surnames of their partners:-
James Bailey Joyce (1802 -1873)
John Wallis Joyce - still in company register 1886, address 21 Bath Road, Beckington, 1868-1886, wife Mary Ann. His grave has age at death - 43 years
Jesse Powell Joyce (1816-1859)
Daniel Bailey Joyce - named in company 1868-1886

I am looking for the other six children, and especially partner names such as Parker!

>>>

I would be grateful for any scrap of evidence. This has been a fifty year search. James Parker Joyce is well-recorded in New Zealand, but his origins are obscure apart from mention of Southhampton.

The reason James Bailey Joyce's death was noted in NZ newspapers was because his son, Alexander Joyce, emigrated to NZ and settled there (he was the Timeball Keeper at Lyttleton Timeball Station)..

James' daughter, Anna Wace Joyce, also lived in NZ for a few years but had returned to England around the time of her father's death.

The Beckington Joyces do not have any connection with Southampton.

You are correct that Peter Keevil was married to Mary Joyce and John Edward Francis Frowd was married to Lydia Joyce. Ebenezer Gough was married to Ann Vincent Joyce.

John Wallis Joyce was the youngest of John Joyce's sons, he died in 1881 and is buried with his wife and parents in the Beckington Baptist Burial Ground.

John Frowd died in 1870.

I have researched this family extensively and I don't believe there is any connection to your ancestor, James Parker Joyce.


The ten children of John Joyce and Mary Bailey of Beckington were:

John JOYCE was born 1779, Beckington, Somerset; was christened 11 Jun 1785, Saint George's Church, Beckington, Somerset; died 18 Oct 1865, Beckington, Somerset; was buried After Oct 18 1865, Baptist Chapel Burial Ground, Berkley Lane, Beckington, Somerset.

John married Mary BAILY 28 Mar 1799 (by License), Saint George's Church, Beckington, Somerset. Mary (daughter of William BAILY and Sarah ALFORD)

He was born 1779, Beckington, Somerset; was christened 4 Apr 1779, Saint George's Church, Beckington, Somerset; died Mar 1863, Beckington, Somerset; was buried , Baptist Chapel Burial Ground, Berkley Lane, Beckington, Somerset.


    Children:

Jane JOYCE   was born 1800, Beckington, Somerset; died 1876, Chard.Somerset.
m Samuel French 1832, Chard, Somerset (one daughter, Emma)
m Samuel Bethell 1865, Dalwood, Devon
m Thomas Hill Fowler 1869, Axminster, Devon

James Bailey JOYCE   was born 1802, Beckington, Somerset; died 12 Sep 1873, Beckington, Somerset; was buried , Baptist Chapel Burial Ground, Berkley Lane, Beckington, Somerset.
m Jane Wace 1837, London (son Alexander Joyce, daughter Anna Wace Joyce)
m Frances Town 1862, London

Daniel Bailey JOYCE   was born 1807, Beckington, Somerset; died 14 Oct 1890, Beckington, Somerset; was buried 18 Oct 1890, Baptist Chapel Burial Ground, Berkley Lane, Beckington, Somerset.
m Eliza Hall 1835, Ashmore, Dorset (one son, John)

William JOYCE   was born 1808, Beckington, Somerset; died Dec 1853, Mells, Somerset; was buried 6 Dec 1853, Saint Andrew, Mells, Somerset.
m Mary Greenfield Hudden 1834, Beckington (one daughter, Agnes)

Lydia JOYCE   was born 1810, Beckington, Somerset; died 4 Dec 1890, 12 Southbrooke Road, Lee, Kent.
m John Edward Francis Frowd 1836, Beckington (11 children)

Mary JOYCE   was born 1812, Beckington, Somerset; died 24 Feb 1888, Brentford, Middlesex; was buried , North Bradley, Wiltshire.
m Peter Keevil 1839, Frome, Somerset (10 children)

Jesse Powell JOYCE   was born 1816, Beckington, Somerset; was christened , Not Known; died 18 Jun 1859, 8 Lorrimore Street, Newington, Surrey; was buried 24 Jun 1859, All Saints Cemetery, Nunhead, Linden Grove, Southwark, Greater London / Surrey .
m Jane Plaister 1839, Frome, Somerset (9 children)

Felix Carey Bailey JOYCE   was born 1816, Beckington, Somerset; died 29 May 1846, Naunton, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire; was buried 10 Jun 1846, Naunton Baptist Chapel, Naunton, Gloucestershire.
m Anne Withers 1839, Norton St Phillip, one month before he died

John Wallace JOYCE   was born 1819, Beckington, Somerset; died 8 Jun 1881, Beckington, Somerset; was buried , Baptist Chapel Burial Ground, Berkley Lane, Beckington, Somerset.
m Mary Ann Parkhouse 1851, London (3 daughters)

Ann Vincent JOYCE   was born 1822, Beckington, Somerset; died 1870, Croydon, Surrey; was buried 1870, Baptist Chapel Burial Ground, Berkley Lane, Beckington, Somerset.
m Ebenezer Gough 1846, Beckinton, no children.

I hope this helps!