Author Topic: 1840 Births OPR Beith Ayrshire - YOUNG  (Read 6418 times)

Offline Retsina

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Re: 1840 Births OPR Beith Ayrshire - YOUNG
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 26 July 17 17:06 BST (UK) »
Thanks Monica for this very interesting info about the King family and also the history of Giffen Castle - you have given me lots of reading to do.  Thanks to your expert help, the King family are starting to make some sense now and I shall continue to follow the leads you have given me. 
Even more exciting would be to find out what happened to William Young Snr. He seems to have gone off the radar completely.  He was born in Beith around 1820 and I know both he and his wife Ann (nee King) were deceased by the time their son William married in 1872, as they are shown as deceased on William jnr's marriage certificate.  I believe that there is a family grave at Beith cemetery.  Do you know any burial sites or people I could contact to check this info?  Also could you let me know where the actual OPRs for Scotland are kept?  Many thanks for your efforts

Offline MonicaL

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Re: 1840 Births OPR Beith Ayrshire - YOUNG
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 26 July 17 22:39 BST (UK) »
The only source for original images of the OPRs, BMDs and census pages is the official pay to view site www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

It is free to register and search/view search results. You have to use units to view images online. Costs are very reasonable.

Re cemeteries, see Part 2 - Beith here www.ayrshireroots.co.uk/Genealogy/Records/Burial/Burial%20Grounds%20in%20Ayrshire.htm

You could try contacting Bereavement Services for the Council. See www.north-ayrshire.gov.uk/births-marriages-and-deaths/deaths/cemeteries-in-north-ayrshire.aspx

Monica
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Offline Retsina

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Re: 1840 Births OPR Beith Ayrshire - YOUNG
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 27 July 17 18:19 BST (UK) »
Hi Monica

Just one other thing.  I've just checked some documents and Ann King is shown as Ann Young on William jnr's marriage cert, so she did marry William at some stage, maybe after William was born in 1840, as she is listed on the 1841 census as Ann King.

Offline MonicaL

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Re: 1840 Births OPR Beith Ayrshire - YOUNG
« Reply #12 on: Friday 28 July 17 21:26 BST (UK) »
Hard to say isn't it whether parents were married or not at this time. Illegitimate children often disguised this fact and on marriage registrations can seem to show parents as married. On William's marriage cert was the wording for parents William Young and Ann King or was it William Young and Ann Young, M.S. King?

Again, the 1841 census with Ann showing under her maiden name of King is not conclusive. In Scotland married women did not loose their legal right to go by their maiden name. This is one of the reasons why in Scotland married women's maiden names are so prominent and used as they are. In the early census, quite common to see married women in the family household showing with their maiden name. With censuses, this practice died out in the later censuses.

Monica
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Offline Retsina

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Re: 1840 Births OPR Beith Ayrshire - YOUNG
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 02 August 17 12:06 BST (UK) »
Thanks for your help Monica.  On William jnr's marriage cert of 1872 Ann is shown as Ann Young M.S. King (deceased).  Also, I have found a very interesting revelation on Scottish Indexes, which is a child maintenance claim in the Sheriff's Court for King vs Young dated May 1840. William jnr's birth date is given as 1st November 1839.  Although the names and dates seem to match up quite well, I can't really say whether this is a co-incidence (I'm thinking unlikely), but there is no age given for the parents etc or any other details about them which is most frustrating. However, I have since found a birth record for Ann King on 22nd August 1816, parents Robert and Mary Whyte King on Family Search (thanks for your suggestion!).  Now I just need to find a marriage cert or birth record for William?

Offline MonicaL

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Re: 1840 Births OPR Beith Ayrshire - YOUNG
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 02 August 17 12:43 BST (UK) »
That was a lucky strike on the Scottish Index to have found sheriff court action  ;) Otherwise you would have had the uncertainty as to whether young William's parents actually did or did not marry (regardless of what info he went on to give on his marriage registration in later years).

Monica

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Offline GR2

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Re: 1840 Births OPR Beith Ayrshire - YOUNG
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 02 August 17 13:03 BST (UK) »
It is quite possible that the minutes of the kirk session might give all the gory details. Digital versions of them can be seen at various archives in Scotland.

Offline Rakiura John

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Re: 1840 Births OPR Beith Ayrshire - YOUNG
« Reply #16 on: Friday 04 August 17 05:07 BST (UK) »
GR2, for someone overseas like myself, are any of those various archives searchable online?

Offline Rakiura John

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Re: 1840 Births OPR Beith Ayrshire - YOUNG
« Reply #17 on: Friday 04 August 17 06:26 BST (UK) »
Hi Retsina,

Mary White (mother of Ann King b1816) was indeed the daughter of Thomas White, Farmer, & Jean Smith [per Mary White's 1865 Death Cert, which also states that Mary died at Giffen, and that she was widow of James King, Farmer].

I've been researching your Ann King's oldest brother, James King b1802, who farmed at Lugtonridge, Beith. You'll find him there in the 1841 & 1851 Census. James married Margaret McIntyre in 1849 and subsequently spent time in Ireland, and Kilmory, Bute where his wife originally came from.

James' 1802 birth record describes him as son of Robert King, Lugton, and Mary White, so it would seem the King family had been farming at Lugtonridge for a long time. Beware though that there were 6 farms all adjacent to each other, 5 of which were all named Lugtonridge, with the 6th farm named High Lugton. The Lugtonridge farms are located in the east of Beith right next to the border with Dunlop parish.

The 1801 Beith Parish Marriage record for Robert King & Mary White describes them as "both in this parish", yet the births/baptisms of all their 10 children (including my James and your Ann) are recorded in Dunlop parish - perhaps because the town and church in Dunlop were physically much closer to Lugtonridge than the Beith church.

The reason I mentioned multiple farms named Lugtonridge is because another of those farms was farmed by a Robert King (c1770-c1852), who married Janet McCulloch in Neilston, Renfrew in 1798 and had multiple children between 1799-1814 (this family also appears in 1841 & 1851 Census at Lugtonridge). This might be a more distant relation but it certainly isn't our Robert King who was having children with Mary White at the same time. In fact because son James King was already Head of the household in 1841 Census, with his mother Mary residing with him, I suspect our Robert had already died by then - although I haven't found his death. [FamilySearch Wiki for Beith indicates that parish Death records only cover the period 1783-1787 so I don't expect to find his death unless a Memorial Inscription turns up].

I hope this is of some help. Don't hesitate to PM me if you want to exchange further info.