Maggie Cameron - Noble - Smith (Toronto and area)

[bbart]

Well done, Cosmac!  That solves what we thought was a double entry for Maggie Cameron in the 1901 census. 
So, Maggie Cant/Cameron could have been with Angus and Ann Noble for most of her life then, with Alexander paying her board, and she thought of them as her parents.  Maybe she always used the surname Noble.

[cosmac]

The birth of Lily on her death registration was Feb 19, 1909 and the sailing on the Empress of Ireland from Liverpool was Feb 26, 1909.  Is that plausible.  Unless Lily has a different birthdate on Scotlands People records.

[cosmac]

Bought Lily's birth registered at Nairn.  There also seems to be one registered at Cawdor.
I will attach it tomorrow.  Even though I resized it it keeps timing out.
Info is
Lilly Fraser, illegitimate, Feb 19, 1909 Union poorhouse Parish of Nairn
No father listed, Mother Maggie Fraser general domestic servant - looks like she worked in Cawdor parish for Meikle Geddes (? ),  Informant was Maggie Fraser, mother and birth registered March 10, Nairn.
Puts the February 26th sailing questionable?
Are there poor house records?

[cosmac]

http://www.morayandnairnfhs.co.uk/pdfs/1911NUP.pdf

Maggie not at Nairn poorhouse in 1911

[bbart]

If I am following your line of thought correctly, you are trying to see if the Margaret Fraser can be the one to go to Toronto, and I don't think so.  The Fraser one would have never have been a Cameron, nor would consider Angus and Ann Noble her parents.
What makes sense to me is in the 1901 census, Maggie Cameron is living with her aunt Mary Ann. The following year, Aunt gets married to Peter Fraser, and brings his own daughter Margaret.  At some point soon after, Margaret Cameron gets moved over to the Nobles, while Peter and Mary Ann raise his and their own children.
Margaret Cameron, being raised by the Nobles assumes their name, considers them parents, even though she knows she is a Cameron.

Before I forget, ages ago you posted that finicky passenger list.  I finally got the url for the image for Maggie.... http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?id=e003624131&op=img&app=passengerlist  She is about 4 names down.

[bbart]

 A maybe for Lily in 1891

Ann    Campbell    Head    Widow    Female    60    1831    Pauper    Nairn, Nairnshire, Scotland    

Isabella    Campbell    Sister    Unmarried    Female    70    1821    Pauper    Nairnshire, Scotland    

Margaret    Fraser    Boarder    -    Female    3    1888    -    Nairnshire, Scotland

House name    Brackenhaugh Cottage
Street    -
Town    -
Parish    Auldearn
City    -
County    Nairn
Registration district    Auldearn

[larkspur]

My family tree here.....
George Henry Antliff and Margaret Cant (MC) were my great grandparents.
I had no idea about Margaret Cant born 1889, so will have to check that out. But I can give some background as to why I think it is possible MC was the mother...
Alexander Cant b 1808 and Margaret Gray 1810 married 1839 in Forres. They had 7 children. One being Mary who went on to have 6 children all without being married to any of the fathers. Some of these children lived with their fathers and Mary seems to have had nothing further to do with their upbringing.
Another daughter Margaret b 1849 gave birth to my great grandmother Margaret Cant b 1866 in Edinkillie. She went on to marry Roderick Munro in 1868 and her parents , Alexander and Margaret, raised their grandaughter. When MC married George Henry  Alexander was named as her father on the marriage certificate.

Now MC following family tradition was "a bit of a lass" She gave birth to a daughter Mary Cant 10 Apr 1886 in Chapelton Moss. This Mary went on to have 3 illegitimate daughters of her own before she married, and had a further 2 legitimate daughters.
MC was in Albert St Nairn on the 1891 census. She married my Gt grandad 22 May 1892 in Caunton Notts. On 25 Sep 1892 she was giving birth to a son James Cant Antliff in Chapelton Moss. Her mother registered the baby and stated that although her daughter was married the husband was not the father of the child. James sadly died a few weeks later.
George Henry and MC went on to have 6 children.

There seems to be some debate on the birth year of "Maggie". This may be the deciding point. My MC only has a possibility of a few years for "Maggie" to be hers.

[Rosinish]

Fraserburgh was talked about with an incorrect Edward Noble.

From the owner of an ancestry tree that I messaged today.  She follows the line of Elizabeth Fraser d/o Peter Fraser and Mary Ann Cameron.
 
Thanks Cosmac...I couldn't remember exactly what the connection was.

As far as I know Maggie Fraser was Peter Fraser's illegimate daughter. When he married Mary Ann Cameron the mother of Maggie gave her to them.

Thanks for that too as that explains why she's gone from niece 1891 to dau 1901 & the change of surname!

I am learning so much from this thread & one is never assume anything which I/we already know but we do tend to (without thinking) where there (looks to be sufficient evidence) & the Maggie Cameron/Fraser scenario is a 'classic' example!
Both have same forename, same circa birth yr, born same area, living same area etc. all pointing to one person (with a relative), with what we thought, an understandable 'assumption' on relationship of niece/dau & change of surname to fit a kind of adoption into the household...
A good lesson in my view.

The other, in all the 20 + yrs I have been doing Scottish genealogy, these illegitimate births are the 1st I've come across which are not indexed under the mother's surname although it may be unique to that area which I haven't any connection with so far?
All the illegitimate births I have so far have always been indexed with the mother's surname & only included both parents surnames on the index where the father was present at registration even if there's a RCE attached with the naming of the father...
Another good lesson in my view.

Annie

[Rosinish]

http://www.morayandnairnfhs.co.uk/pdfs/1911NUP.pdf

Maggie not at Nairn poorhouse in 1911

I wonder what the surname of her mother was if this is the birth?

FRASER MARGARET 1890 121/ 19 Auldearn

If I am following your line of thought correctly, you are trying to see if the Margaret Fraser can be the one to go to Toronto, and I don't think so.  The Fraser one would have never have been a Cameron, nor would consider Angus and Ann Noble her parents.
What makes sense to me is in the 1901 census, Maggie Cameron is living with her aunt Mary Ann. The following year, Aunt gets married to Peter Fraser, and brings his own daughter Margaret.  At some point soon after, Margaret Cameron gets moved over to the Nobles, while Peter and Mary Ann raise his and their own children.
Margaret Cameron, being raised by the Nobles assumes their name, considers them parents, even though she knows she is a Cameron.

Without trying to put obstacles in the way...

"The Fraser one would have never have been a Cameron"

Sorry bb I am disagreeing on the Fraser/Cameron possibility because we don't know what her mother's surname was & I'm not assuming anything else on this lot   

Her mother may have been a Cameron or Noble 

Annie