Confirmation of Date and Details

[MattD30]

Hi Gerrelle

Hope you are well. Here is a bit more info for you on my Essherst/Asshurst connection.

My 13x great grandmother is Alice Eshehurst who married Thomas Den [or Denne] of Kingston presumably sometime in the late 15th century.

I know that they had the following children but only know approximately when one was born.

Thomas - date of birth not known
William - born about 1499 in Kingston and died in October 1572 - my ancestor
James - date of birth not known - he died in 1574

I'm putting basic tree together and will send that to you in the next day or two.

Hope to hear from you soon.

Matt

[gloveg]

Hi Gerelle

Yes it was quite late when I posted that reply to your message, I'm usually up late reading or researching.

I am at the National Archives at Kew nr London now (it's just gone 1.15pm) so I guess you'll get this later.

That was quite a bit of info you posted but it does add up with what I have. I will send you another message later with the details of my link to the family, but in the meantime you might like to look at the following which is another post of mine:

Help with 15th century Wills

I've posted several sections from various Assherst/Asshurst/Essheherst/Eshhurst [etc] wills on there and there has been a lot of response. Hopefully by combining what we know we can put the tree together.

Anyhow that's all for now but expect a bigger reply later.

Best Wishes from England
Matt

Hi Matt,
I have had a look at the posts under "Help with 15th century wills" and was grateful to Bookbox and Horselydown for the transcripts of both John and Ellen's wills and their comments. I note, that I mistakenly thought from Ellen's will that Clement Gyfford of Ashford was Ellen's father.  His will is dated 1507 which could confirm it or not.
Also, I note the will of Peter Peryn dated 1474/6. Whether Ellen was married firstly to Peter Peryn or if he is her son, perhaps a look at that will would help with that.

Re: the will of John Essherst of Ashford 1493
The Thomas Essherst/Assherst the elder is the brother of John. The will of Henry Esseherst of Great Chart 1463 names his sons as John and Thomas. (It would be really helpful to have this will translated from latin into english as well if you can request it). And Thomas, the younger, is Thomas's son. This is confirmed on page three of the will.

I'm not sure who the Henry Assherst and Thomas Assherst of Kingsnorth are either. There is a Henry mentioned in the Will of Henry Esseherst of Great Chart 1463, but Im not sure if he is his son or not. If it is, then that would take care of the Henry. As to Thomas Assheherst of Kingsnorth, I note that he was both a witness to Richard Assheherst of Kingsnorth Will 1464 and executor to John Esseherst of Ashford will 1493. However, no relationship is given in either.

I believe that the will of Thomas Assheherst of Kingsnorth dated 1473 is that of Thomas Essherst, the elder, brother of John and not of the unknown Thomas Assherst of Kingsnorth mentioned above. There are a few reasons for that which are a bit tricky to explain without the wills and a pedigree chart in front of you, so you can see the relationships.

Also I note that the transcript of John Essherst's will ends at "Bilham" at the bottom of the second page. There is a third page to this will which, as stated above, mentions that Thomas Assherst the younger is the son of Thomas Assherst the elder who is his (ie. John's) brother.  Also, John names his daughters, Elys, Elizabeth and Benet. If you do not have this page, I could attempt a transcript of it for you. I believe the Elys (Alice) might be the ancestor you are looking for.

Am looking forward to receiving your next message.
Gerelle.

[MattD30]

Hi Gerelle

Can you send me a basic family tree showing how these people all link up? I think that would help working out the various relationships. Have you got a transcript of Peter Peryn's Will that you can send me at all?

I have translations [Latin] and transcriptions of the following Wills

Ellen Essherst of Ashford [1498]
John Essherst of Ashford [1492]
John Essheherst of Ashford Bever [1514] [extracts only]

Let me know if you want to see these.

I look forward to hearing from and seeing if we can get this family sorted out between us.

Best Wishes
Matt

[MattD30]

Hi Gerelle

Yes it was quite late when I posted that reply to your message, I'm usually up late reading or researching.

I am at the National Archives at Kew nr London now (it's just gone 1.15pm) so I guess you'll get this later.

That was quite a bit of info you posted but it does add up with what I have. I will send you another message later with the details of my link to the family, but in the meantime you might like to look at the following which is another post of mine:

Help with 15th century Wills

I've posted several sections from various Assherst/Asshurst/Essheherst/Eshhurst [etc] wills on there and there has been a lot of response. Hopefully by combining what we know we can put the tree together.

Anyhow that's all for now but expect a bigger reply later.

Best Wishes from England
Matt

Hi Matt,
I have had a look at the posts under "Help with 15th century wills" and was grateful to Bookbox and Horselydown for the transcripts of both John and Ellen's wills and their comments. I note, that I mistakenly thought from Ellen's will that Clement Gyfford of Ashford was Ellen's father.  His will is dated 1507 which could confirm it or not.
Also, I note the will of Peter Peryn dated 1474/6. Whether Ellen was married firstly to Peter Peryn or if he is her son, perhaps a look at that will would help with that.

Re: the will of John Essherst of Ashford 1493
The Thomas Essherst/Assherst the elder is the brother of John. The will of Henry Esseherst of Great Chart 1463 names his sons as John and Thomas. (It would be really helpful to have this will translated from latin into english as well if you can request it). And Thomas, the younger, is Thomas's son. This is confirmed on page three of the will.

I'm not sure who the Henry Assherst and Thomas Assherst of Kingsnorth are either. There is a Henry mentioned in the Will of Henry Esseherst of Great Chart 1463, but Im not sure if he is his son or not. If it is, then that would take care of the Henry. As to Thomas Assheherst of Kingsnorth, I note that he was both a witness to Richard Assheherst of Kingsnorth Will 1464 and executor to John Esseherst of Ashford will 1493. However, no relationship is given in either.

I believe that the will of Thomas Assheherst of Kingsnorth dated 1473 is that of Thomas Essherst, the elder, brother of John and not of the unknown Thomas Assherst of Kingsnorth mentioned above. There are a few reasons for that which are a bit tricky to explain without the wills and a pedigree chart in front of you, so you can see the relationships.

Also I note that the transcript of John Essherst's will ends at "Bilham" at the bottom of the second page. There is a third page to this will which, as stated above, mentions that Thomas Assherst the younger is the son of Thomas Assherst the elder who is his (ie. John's) brother.  Also, John names his daughters, Elys, Elizabeth and Benet. If you do not have this page, I could attempt a transcript of it for you. I believe the Elys (Alice) might be the ancestor you are looking for.

Am looking forward to receiving your next message.
Gerelle.

Hi Gerelle

I appear to be missing the third page of the 1493 Will of John Essherst. My copy of the translation/transcription ends at "lyeng at Bilh(a)m..."

Do you have a copy of the Will which you can send me? I have only seen the transcription so seeing the original would be handy.

Also if you can send a transcription (even a partial one) of this third page it would be appreciated as it would help me a lot. You may well be right about Elys being my "Alice".

Best Wishes
Matt

[gloveg]

Hi Matt,

I am working on a transcription of the third page for you at the moment. Will send when I am finished.
I dont have a copy of the will of Peter Peryn sorry. Would have to order it, but am not at that stage at the moment where I need to.
I am still working on a family tree and how they fit together.

Would really appreciate it, if someone was able to translate the second part of Henry Essheherst's Will of 1463. Being in Latin and also difficult to read makes it somewhat impossible for me to make sense of it. I really would like to know in the second line does it read "edwd (Edward) henry (Henry) ... agatha (Agatha) and what their relation to Henry Essherst may be and also, in the third line "Agatha" and is she his wife or the agatha mentioned in line 2.
I attach here the full copy of his will.
Cheers, Gerelle

[MattD30]

Hi Matt,

I am working on a transcription of the third page for you at the moment. Will send when I am finished.
I dont have a copy of the will of Peter Peryn sorry. Would have to order it, but am not at that stage at the moment where I need to.
I am still working on a family tree and how they fit together.

Would really appreciate it, if someone was able to translate the second part of Henry Essheherst's Will of 1463. Being in Latin and also difficult to read makes it somewhat impossible for me to make sense of it. I really would like to know in the second line does it read "edwd (Edward) henry (Henry) ... agatha (Agatha) and what their relation to Henry Essherst may be and also, in the third line "Agatha" and is she his wife or the agatha mentioned in line 2.
I attach here the full copy of his will.
Cheers, Gerelle

Hi Gerelle

You caught me just before I head off to bed lol! I am just in the middle of making some notes on various Wills I have been looking at.

It would be great to have a transcription of the third page so I know what the whole thing says, so thank you for working on it. I look forward to reading the transcription when you're finished.

I think I have some notes on Peter's Will. I can send you them if you like. I am happy to get a copy if it will be of use.

Anyhow that's all for now. Bed soon, work tomorrow.

Matt

[goldie61]

Hi Matt,

I am working on a transcription of the third page for you at the moment. Will send when I am finished.
I dont have a copy of the will of Peter Peryn sorry. Would have to order it, but am not at that stage at the moment where I need to.
I am still working on a family tree and how they fit together.

Would really appreciate it, if someone was able to translate the second part of Henry Essheherst's Will of 1463. Being in Latin and also difficult to read makes it somewhat impossible for me to make sense of it. I really would like to know in the second line does it read "edwd (Edward) henry (Henry) ... agatha (Agatha) and what their relation to Henry Essherst may be and also, in the third line "Agatha" and is she his wife or the agatha mentioned in line 2.
I attach here the full copy of his will.
Cheers, Gerelle

It's doubtful anybody who could translate this will see it here at the end of this initial post - page 4 I think.
It would be better if you started a new topic with it on the Handwriting Deciphering Board.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/handwriting-deciphering-recognition/

You will need to make a bigger sized scan.
The one you have posted here is only about 200kbs, and is not good enough resolution to be able to read it - it becomes pixalated when you zoom in.
You are allowed up to 500 kbs for any one image to attach.

[MattD30]

Hi Gerelle

I think goldie61 make a good point. I just tried to download the image and had to zoom in a lot to read anything. I think it would definitely help us both if you could post a bigger image (maybe in two halves). If you can send me a copy by email as well that would be handy.

Matt

[gloveg]

Thanks for that tip Goldie. I have started a new topic "Help with Asherst Wills" and have attached the will in four parts, so hopefully that will help.

Matt,
Here is the start of the transcript of the third page of John Essherst's will of 1493, as follows:

"...in the parish of Kingsnorth aforesaid unto the time the said John my son cometh to the age of 22 years and when he cometh to that age then I will my said overseers deliver a sufficient and lawful estate in fee simple of and in all the foresaid lands and tenements afore rehersed(?) within the parishes aforesaid except (before except)(?) to the foresaid John my son to be delivered to him his heirs and assigns forever. Also I will that immediately after the decease of Elene my wife my said overseers deliver to the said John my son my said messuages and all my said lands and tenements at Billam (Billingham) aforesaid to him his heirs and assigns forever. Also if it happen any of my said two sons do die within their foresaid age of 22 years without heirs of their bodies lawfully begotten then his part to remain to my son that so outliveth. Also if both my said sons die within the age of 22 years foresaid without lawful heirs of their bodies then I will that my said overseers suffer Thomas Assherst my brother to take the fines and profit of all my lands and tenements lying and being at Hernwood during his life if it may be spared unsold. And after the decease of the said Thomas Assherst I wiill that my said overseers deliver a lawful estate to Thomas Assherst the younger son of Thomas my brother of and in all my foresaid place and lands at Hernwood to him his heirs and assigns forever."

I will send the second half of the transcript when I have finished.
Cheers, Gerelle.