Confirmation of Date and Details

[MattD30]

Thanks for that tip Goldie. I have started a new topic "Help with Asherst Wills" and have attached the will in four parts, so hopefully that will help.

Matt,
Here is the start of the transcript of the third page of John Essherst's will of 1493, as follows:

"...in the parish of Kingsnorth aforesaid unto the time the said John my son cometh to the age of 22 years and when he cometh to that age then I will my said overseers deliver a sufficient and lawful estate in fee simple of and in all the foresaid lands and tenements afore rehersed(?) within the parishes aforesaid except (before except)(?) to the foresaid John my son to be delivered to him his heirs and assigns forever. Also I will that immediately after the decease of Elene my wife my said overseers deliver to the said John my son my said messuages and all my said lands and tenements at Billam (Billingham) aforesaid to him his heirs and assigns forever. Also if it happen any of my said two sons do die within their foresaid age of 22 years without heirs of their bodies lawfully begotten then his part to remain to my son that so outliveth. Also if both my said sons die within the age of 22 years foresaid without lawful heirs of their bodies then I will that my said overseers suffer Thomas Assherst my brother to take the fines and profit of all my lands and tenements lying and being at Hernwood during his life if it may be spared unsold. And after the decease of the said Thomas Assherst I wiill that my said overseers deliver a lawful estate to Thomas Assherst the younger son of Thomas my brother of and in all my foresaid place and lands at Hernwood to him his heirs and assigns forever."

I will send the second half of the transcript when I have finished.
Cheers, Gerelle.

Hi Gerelle

Thanks for that transcript I will add it to what I have so far and look forward to seeing your next bit.

I agree with you about Ellen having probably being married before. I also think it is possible that John was previously married as well.

The parishes of Kingsnorth and Rodmersham get mentioned quite a bit in both the Wills of John and Ellen and I suspect there are family links with those areas. The following probate records might be useful:

John Peryn of Rodmersham - 1509 Act
Richard Peryn of Rodmersham - 1474 Will
William Peryn of Rodmersham - 1482 Will
Stephen Peryn of Wye - 1518 Will

We know that mentions her son John Peryn whom she names as one of the executors of her Will.

In John's Will he mentions "Alice Peryn daughter of Peter Peryn" as well as "William Cloke of Kingsnorth", "Nicholas Peryn" and "Clement Gifford". Clement is a witness to Ellen's Will and I think Nicholas my have been a witness too.

I think that Ellen was previously married to Peter Peryn based on the following.

In his 1492 Will, John Essherst makes a bequest of 40s to "Alice Peryn, daughter of Peter Peryn" and in her Will of 1498 Ellen refers to her daughter "Alice Peryn" as well as her son "John Peryn"

There is a 1476 Will for a Peter Peryn of Biddenden which might be worth looking at.

The witnesses to Ellen's will included William Cloke, Clement Gyfford, William Fryght and Robert Sprott and William Cloke and Clement get mentioned in John's Will.

It's possible that these Wills relate to these people:

William Cloke of Kingsnorth - 1509
Clement Gyfford of Ashford - 1507
William Fright of Ashford - 1537
Robert Sprott of Ashford - 1513

I don't know if they are related but even if they're not they might give info about John and Ellen.

That's all for now but I'll let you know if I get any more ideas and I look forward to reading the next part of your transcript of John's will.

Best Wishes

Matt

[MattD30]

Hi Gerelle

Further to my last posting I have found an extract of the details of the 1475 will of Peter Peryn which establishes that he wasn't the first husband of Ellen Essherst. Peter mentions the following people:

Wife Agnes
Executors : William Harry & Stephen Peryn
Feoffes: Robert Wylock, William Harry & Stephen Edynden
Brothers, Laurence Peryn & Stephen Peryn
William Peryn son of Richard Peryn

There is no mention of daughters Alice or Marion, or of Ellen.

You can see this transcript online at ttp://freepages.rootsweb.com/~mrawson/genealogy/extr5.html

Matt

[gloveg]

Hi Matt,
Thanks for the transcript of Peter Peryns will. Yes, he obviously wasn't Ellen's first husband. Perhaps he was her husband's brother. I will have a further look at this.

Continuation of transcript of John Asshert's will:

If it happen the said Thomas the son of the said Thomas my brother do die before his father then I will my said overseers deliver a lawful estate of and in my foresaid place and lands at Hernwood to the foresaid Thomas Assherst the elder my brother to him his heirs and assigns forever without any continuance(?) in the same. Also I will that all my other lands and tenements rents copilands and such(?) with their appurtenances shall remain to Elys Elizabeth and Benet my daughters to them their heirs and assigns forever. Also I will that if Elene my wife die within the age of 18 years of my said two sons then I will that my two sons and lands aforesaid be (...) and (...) by my said overseers in form (...). Also I will that if all my moveable goods and chattels and all my debtments be not able to perform fulfil and pay debts and bequests in form foresaid that then my said overseers sell as much of my said lands at Hernwood as needeth truly for the performance of this my last will and testament as they think by them (...) best to be done. Furthermore I will that my said overseers shall suffer my said executors to sell carry out at all reasonable times (...) it honest which I have sold and ... (end of will)
Probated ...

[MattD30]

Hi Matt,
Thanks for the transcript of Peter Peryns will. Yes, he obviously wasn't Ellen's first husband. Perhaps he was her husband's brother. I will have a further look at this.

Continuation of transcript of John Asshert's will:

If it happen the said Thomas the son of the said Thomas my brother do die before his father then I will my said overseers deliver a lawful estate of and in my foresaid place and lands at Hernwood to the foresaid Thomas Assherst the elder my brother to him his heirs and assigns forever without any continuance(?) in the same. Also I will that all my other lands and tenements rents copilands and such(?) with their appurtenances shall remain to Elys Elizabeth and Benet my daughters to them their heirs and assigns forever. Also I will that if Elene my wife die within the age of 18 years of my said two sons then I will that my two sons and lands aforesaid be (...) and (...) by my said overseers in form (...). Also I will that if all my moveable goods and chattels and all my debtments be not able to perform fulfil and pay debts and bequests in form foresaid that then my said overseers sell as much of my said lands at Hernwood as needeth truly for the performance of this my last will and testament as they think by them (...) best to be done. Furthermore I will that my said overseers shall suffer my said executors to sell carry out at all reasonable times (...) it honest which I have sold and ... (end of will)
Probated ...

Hi Gerelle

Thanks for that. I am trying to see if I can find any mother Peryn wills today which might prove useful. I'll let you know what I find.

In the meantime I have copies of these Wills if you have not yet seen them:

Henry Essheherset of Kingsnorth 1530
William Assheherst[e] of Great Chart 1524

Let me know if you want to see those.

Best wishes
Matt

[gloveg]

Hi Matt
Good luck with other Peryn wills. I hope you find something. Can you also see if you can find the will for Clement Gyfford.

I already have a copy of the two wills you mentioned, but I would like a copy of the will of Thomas Asherst of Great Chart 1554 and that of Elizabeth Assheherst of Westwell 1528.
Cheers, Gerelle

[MattD30]

Hi Matt
Good luck with other Peron wills. I hope you find something. Can you also see if you can find the will for William Gifford.

I already have a copy of the two wills you mentioned, but I would like a copy of the will of Thomas Amherst of great chart 1554 and that of Elizabeth Assheherst of westwell, sorry forget the year. I'll check on that when I get home.
Cheers, Gerelle

Hi Gerelle

I think those two wills are on my list of things to check so I will see if I can get copies. There is also a 1581 Will of Michael Assheherst of Kingsnorth which may be worth looking at as well.

I have copies of the following Wills:

Henry Essheherst of Great Chart 1463
John Essherst of Ashford 1514
John Essherst of Ashford 1517
Richard Assheherst of Kingsnorth 1464
Richard Assheherst of Kingsnorth 1540
Thomas Ayssherst of Kingsnorth 1474
Thomas Asherst of Great Chart 1503
Thomas Essherst of Great Chart 1512
Thomas Asherst of Ashford 1518

The years given are all the years of probate except the 1464 Will of Richard Assheherst of Kingsnorth which has no probate year.

If you haven't seen these let me know and I will send you copies.

Elizabeth's Will was probated in 1529 according to my list.

I can't see any record of a will for William Gifford. Did you mean Clement?

Best Wishes
Matt

[gloveg]

Hi Matt,

The wills I would like to obtain a copy of are -

Thomas Asherste of Great Chart 1554 PRC/17/29/272
Elizabeth Essherst of Westwell 1528 PRC/32/15/66b
The will of Robert Asheherste of Great Chart. The reference for the Inventory of Robert Asheherste of Great Chart 1581 is PRC/10/10/82 - there is supposed to be a will associated with this inventory, but I have found no reference for it on the Canterbury Probate Records Index.
Also I wanted to check if the will of John Essherst of Ashford 1512 has a probatum clause that is missing from my copy of the will.

I have a copy of all the wills you listed and a copy of the will of Michael Asheherst of Kingsnorth 1581. He is the son of Richard Assheherst of Kingsnorth whose will is 1540. In his will, Michael Asheherst mentions the following:

His unamed mother, his brother William Asheherst of Kingsnorth, his wife Jone and his children Henry, Mary Whyte, Jone (the elder), Katheryn, Anne, Margaret, Myldred, Jone (the younger), Edward (eldest son) and John (second son).

Michael Asheherst was married twice. His second wife (named in his will) was Jone Hubert. He has a number of brothers and sisters, as enumerated in Richard Assheherst's will and also in the wills of his brothers of which I also have copies.

I have made a fairly comprehensive list of all the Asherst wills on the Caterbury Probate Records Index from 1450 to 1600 (about 40 wills) and have a copy of about 25 of those.

Sorry, yes I did mean Clement Gyfford of Ashford Will 1507.
Cheers, Gerelle.

[MattD30]

Hi Matt,

The wills I would like to obtain a copy of are -

Thomas Asherste of Great Chart 1554 PRC/17/29/272
Elizabeth Essherst of Westwell 1528 PRC/32/15/66b
The will of Robert Asheherste of Great Chart. The reference for the Inventory of Robert Asheherste of Great Chart 1581 is PRC/10/10/82 - there is supposed to be a will associated with this inventory, but I have found no reference for it on the Canterbury Probate Records Index.
Also I wanted to check if the will of John Essherst of Ashford 1512 has a probatum clause that is missing from my copy of the will.

I have a copy of all the wills you listed and a copy of the will of Michael Asheherst of Kingsnorth 1581. He is the son of Richard Assheherst of Kingsnorth whose will is 1540. In his will, Michael Asheherst mentions the following:

His unamed mother, his brother William Asheherst of Kingsnorth, his wife Jone and his children Henry, Mary Whyte, Jone (the elder), Katheryn, Anne, Margaret, Myldred, Jone (the younger), Edward (eldest son) and John (second son).

Michael Asheherst was married twice. His second wife (named in his will) was Jone Hubert. He has a number of brothers and sisters, as enumerated in Richard Assheherst's will and also in the wills of his brothers of which I also have copies.

I have made a fairly comprehensive list of all the Asherst wills on the Caterbury Probate Records Index from 1450 to 1600 (about 40 wills) and have a copy of about 25 of those.
Cheers, Gerelle.

Hi Gerelle

Are you doing a ONS on this surname by any chance?

With regards to Robert Asheherste of Great Chart have you looked at the original record? I see from the Canterbury Probate Records Index that there is supposed to be a Will associated with the listed Inventory but like you I can't see the Will itself listed. I have seen a few cases in the past where the Will is filed with the Inventory so they may be together.

I will look to see if I have a copy of the 1512 Will of John Essherst and see if I can spot a probate clause.

Best Wishes
Matt

[gloveg]

Hi Matt,
I certainly didn't start out to do a ONS on the Asherst name, but trying to see where my Asherst line fits in has made me look at all possibilities. However, I still haven't been able to make the link yet.

The most definite link I have is that my ancestor, Elizabeth Asherst who married Erasmus Elmstone, is mentioned with her husband, in the will of her mother, Elizabeth Asherst of Ashford 1613. Her father is John Asherst of Ashford whose will is dated 1584. But further back than that is uncertain.

I think I may have tried to look for the inventory of Robert Asheherst 1581, but I could not find it. Mind you there are 952 inventories 1559-1640 to go through in this record, so its quite a hit and miss process to try and find it, that's if it is there at all! I might try asking the Archives Office in Kent for their advice in trying to find it.  Let me know if you have any luck with the probatum clause for the 1512 will of John Asherst. Otherwise, I will ask the Kent Archives Office about that as well.
Cheers, Gerelle.