Author Topic: Confirmation of Date and Details  (Read 1852 times)

Offline MattD30

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Re: Confirmation of Date and Details
« Reply #9 on: Monday 02 October 17 21:04 BST (UK) »
I am useless at reading these old wills, but I do have a question.  Is it just coincidence that the fancy bit looks very much like a man's profile, (wearing one of those big fancy powdered wigs)?

This bit:

Hi

I hadn't noticed this at all but I see what you mean. It could be a coincidence or perhaps this was a basic attempt at a portrait of John.

Obviously both ideas are guesses and I don't think we can prove either idea but this is an interesting feature of the Will.

Matt

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Offline MattD30

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Re: Confirmation of Date and Details
« Reply #10 on: Monday 02 October 17 21:13 BST (UK) »
First image:

If this is the end of the will, it doesn't end with the usual appointments as mentioned in your request.

He is talking about the minor age of what I think are his children.

As I read it*, he mentions a Johanne his wife, a Johannus (John) his son and a Johanne his daughter.

In the last Item he mentions a Henry Essherst.

The context relates to custody and governance, and minor age.  A boy and a wife are mentioned.

* DISCLAIMER:  Some or all of this may be quite wrong.

Thanks for this and the details of the probate date. I might have chopped a bit off at the end when I cropped the image in order to post it but I think I've got it all here. If the will ends differently than usually expected then I wonder why this is.

Anyhow many thanks for the update.

Matt

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Offline MattD30

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Re: Confirmation of Date and Details
« Reply #11 on: Monday 02 October 17 21:35 BST (UK) »
1st extract
And the residue of all the profits of my lands & tenements should remain with Johanna/Joan my wife, if she is then living, during the term of minority of the aforesaid John my son & Johanna/Joan my daughter. Item I will that my children should remain in the custody and governance of Henry Essherst or his assigns during the whole of the aforesaid period of (their) minority, if my wife should fail.

2nd extract
As in reply #6 above. The word exec(uto)rib(us) shows that there is more than one executor, but they are not named in this snippet.

ADDED – the decorated initial is surely intentional. An ‘artistic’ clerk in the probate registry? You can sometimes find ‘pointing fingers’ in the margin, decorated with rings and bracelets, to highlight significant parts of a will. With all the legal verbiage to plough through, such guides can be quite helpful.

Many thanks for those updates which are very useful. I am still trying to work out what the relationship between John Esseherst and Henry Esseherst is. I think they might be brothers but I am not certain. There is a Henry Esseherst of Kingsnorth who left a Will dated 1530 and I'll look at this next to see if I can find a link.

I've also got the 1517 Will of John Essherst of Ashford and I wonder if this is the son of this John. I'll post some of the images soon. There is also a Thomas Asherst of Ashford who left a Will dated 1518 and I wonder if he is a relative as well.

My ancestor was Alice Essheherst (or Asshehurst) and hopefully by going through these Wills I will be able to build up a picture of her parents and family. I did think that this John was her father but as she is not mentioned in the Will, I am now not certain. My theory that her father was this John was based only on info sent to me in an email several years ago which drew on some online resources and trees, however I have always been uncertain about this connection as no evidence was provided.

Alice's father might be this John's son (also John), or she might be the daughter of a different Essheherst (perhaps Henry).

Whatever the case I am pretty certain these people are related as the surname is relatively unusual and they all appear to be in the same area of Kent.

Thanks again for the help and suggestions

Matt

Offline MattD30

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Re: Confirmation of Date and Details
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 03 October 17 00:16 BST (UK) »
Hi

I'm attaching two smalls snippet from the first page of this Will and I'm hoping someone can confirm some details and names in this piece.

Snippet 1

In the second line down it looks like there is a reference to the name "John Geoffrey" and in the fourth line there seems to be a reference to "Robert Sprott" at the end. In the next line I think there is a reference to "Alice Geoffrey" and at the end of the snippet I think there is a reference to "Agnes Bradshaw". All of the names are in Latin so I might be wrong.

Can anyone confirm my thoughts or correct me and let me know if any relationships or other details about them are given.

Snippet 2

In this second image in the second line it looks like there is a reference to a "John Edmond" followed by another reference to "Agnes Bradshaw" in the next line. At the end of line I think there is a reference to "John Stykke" or possibly "John Stybbe". Can anyone confirm these names and again let me know if any relationships are provided here.

Lastly can someone clarify the names given at the end (I think these are the executors). I can see there is a reference to Henry Esseherst of Kingsnorth, but I am not sure of the next person. The first name is clearly William but I'm not sure on the surname, it looks like it starts with F.

Many Thanks

Matt

Offline goldie61

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Re: Confirmation of Date and Details
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 03 October 17 04:57 BST (UK) »
Names in Snippet 1:
'John Geffrey' - note no "O" in it.
Rob(er)t Dursten - the long curl on the tail of the 'n' may mean another letter, or it may just be a flourish.
Rob(er)t Sprott
Alice Geffrey
Rob(er)t Wat
Helene Alford
Agneti (Agnes) Braban - similar curl on the tail of the last letter.

Snippet 2:
Rob(er)t  Rydar
Will(iam) Cotley
Johne Edmond
Agneti Braban
John Stykker

Henry Essherst  of Kingesno(r)th & Will(ia)m Fryght of Esshford executors. There is a line over 'Fryght' which normally means one or more missing letters, but I don't know what they might be.

Not a Latin scholar, but it look to me as if many of these just give the name and the amount of money of the bequest.
John Geffrey and Robert Durstend servants? - serventi? written after their names

Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Confirmation of Date and Details
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 03 October 17 06:31 BST (UK) »
As goldie has suggested, I think John Geffrey and Robert Dursten are his servants.

I believe the words are:  s(er)vienti meo

Also, I believe it is Gotley rather than Cotley.  Compare the initial letter to Geffrey.

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Confirmation of Date and Details
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 03 October 17 08:53 BST (UK) »
Just to add to what is above, the bequests are not to William Gotley and John Edmond themselves, but to their wives (unnamed).

Also, there is nothing for Robert Sprott - the bequest is for repairing ‘the dangerous footpath next to the gate of Robert Sprott’.

Offline MattD30

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Re: Confirmation of Date and Details
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 03 October 17 21:39 BST (UK) »
Names in Snippet 1:
'John Geffrey' - note no "O" in it.
Rob(er)t Dursten - the long curl on the tail of the 'n' may mean another letter, or it may just be a flourish.
Rob(er)t Sprott
Alice Geffrey
Rob(er)t Wat
Helene Alford
Agneti (Agnes) Braban - similar curl on the tail of the last letter.

Snippet 2:
Rob(er)t  Rydar
Will(iam) Cotley
Johne Edmond
Agneti Braban
John Stykker

Henry Essherst  of Kingesno(r)th & Will(ia)m Fryght of Esshford executors. There is a line over 'Fryght' which normally means one or more missing letters, but I don't know what they might be.

Not a Latin scholar, but it look to me as if many of these just give the name and the amount of money of the bequest.
John Geffrey and Robert Durstend servants? - serventi? written after their names

Many thanks for those. Having some names makes the Will a bit easier to read somehow and now I have a list of the people mentioned in it I hope to be able to build up a better picture of the Esshehersts.

Matt

Offline MattD30

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Re: Confirmation of Date and Details
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 03 October 17 21:47 BST (UK) »
As goldie has suggested, I think John Geffrey and Robert Dursten are his servants.

I believe the words are:  s(er)vienti meo

Also, I believe it is Gotley rather than Cotley.  Compare the initial letter to Geffrey.

Hi

I think you're right, the term does seem to make sense.

Matt