Author Topic: Obtaining a Marriage Cert  (Read 2142 times)

Offline Annette7

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Re: Obtaining a Marriage Cert
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 05 October 17 03:11 BST (UK) »
Children of Allen Hedley and Priscilla that I'd found:

William James (transcribed as Hedla on Ancestry) b.26/1/1822, bp.3/3/1822 St. Andrew United Reform Church, Woolwich, son of Allan Hedlay, Sergeant in the Royal Artillery, and of  ........... his wife  (left blank - perhaps the vicar forgot to note her name when writing in the ledger or couldn't read his own writing).   This is the son whom Priscilla is with in 1851 and if I'm reading the thread correctly your gt. gt. grandfather so wondering why you are surprised at 1822 baptism?  He is shown as 15 in 1841 but you have to remember that in 1841 people over the age of 15 had their ages rounded down so William in this instance born 1822-1826 and was indeed born 1822.

Thomas b.25/6/1823, bp.31/7/1823 Scots Church, Woolwich   

Elizabeth b.16/11/1827, bp.13/12/1827 Scots Church, Woolwich

John bc.1834 Woolwich (can't find baptism online)

In 1851 both Thomas and John are in the Royal Artillery themselves in Woolwich.

I agree with earlier comment that Priscilla was not born on Okehampton, Devon and that there are 2 lines through 'birthplace' which are not 'ditto'.

I cannot find her in 1861 but note she died in 1873 in Kingston and that she is in Cambridge Road Asylum, Kingston in 1871 - shown as soldiers widow and birthplace given as Bermondsey.

However, it looks like there was at least one older child, namely Allen Robert Hedley shown  on census as bc.1821 Woolwich  although I can't find a baptism - have found a birth entry in Armed Forces births for a plain Allen Hedley 1820 Woolwich - Royal Artillery Vol.20 and this entry is followed by William J. Hedley 1822 Woolwich, with same details - he married a Margaret Morris (shown to be bc.1827 Gibraltar) although once again can't find a marriage.   Their eldest child was b.1846 in Ireland, and another daughter born 1852 Gibraltar so I'm guessing they were there in 1851, in 1855 in London they had a daughter Priscilla Mary Ann!   From 1861 family lived in Buckinghamshire and he is shown as Police Officer and later 'Supt. of Police'. 

Annette

Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Horn8397

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Re: Obtaining a Marriage Cert
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 05 October 17 10:22 BST (UK) »
Hi Annette,

Huge thanks for all the information you have sent.  My mind is on overload now.  I find it frustrating that other people can find information, that eludes me, apparently so easily.

I now need to digest all that you have sent.  But a couple of points initially; I have a marriage cert for William Hedley, he married Jane Jefferies 26th May 1844 which I believe is correct for my family tree.  Am I right in thinking that the marriage of an Allen Hedley in Trinidad is now a red herring? How did you find the information on Priscilla?  When and where she died and the fact that she was in Cambridge Road Asylum in 1871, for example.  I assume that it was Kingston, England. Similarly with the Armed forces records regarding an Allen Hedley.  Your final paragraph provides so much information which I will now try and sort out.
Finally have you any idea where I can find the parents names of Allen Hedley, I was hoping that his marriage details would provide them so I could continue my search.  Also I have information on an Allen Hedley (which I think is correct) from which the Chelsea Pensioners Service Records which indicate he was born in Elsdon, Northumberland.  So I intend to follow that up and perhaps obtain info on his birth

Thanks again for all you very valuable help.  I'll make myself a strong back coffee now and start sorting things out.

Regards

Offline Annette7

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Re: Obtaining a Marriage Cert
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 05 October 17 14:08 BST (UK) »
Unfortunately, before civil registration began in late 1837, you are reliant on parish registers.  Whilst there are baptisms for Elsdon online I can find nothing for Allen Hedley bc.1778 to 1781 although plenty of other Hedley's.   However, the baptisms of his own children that have been found are in non-conformist churches so it's quite possible that Allen himself was baptised in a non-conformist church whose records are not available online, only held by the Northumberland Archives Service from what I can see by googling.  Whilst non-conformist couples could baptise their children in a non-conformist church before civil registration they would have to have married in a normal parish church. 

Both the 1871 census details and death entry for Priscilla were found on Ancestry.   On the census at Kingston on Thames, Surrey surname spelt as 'Headley' but death entry correct as 'Hedley' in Dec. 1873 Kingston, Surrey.

Even if you found the marriage entry for Allen and Priscilla this would not help in identifying Allen's family.   Before civil registration began in 1837 no parents names are shown on parish marriage entries - just the individuals own status, when banns read, and witnesses (this would be on original entries only and often missing on online transcriptions.    Indeed the further back you go in records you'll often just find that 'Fred Bloggs married Fanny Smith' on such and such a date with no other details at all.)   Parish records can vary greatly, and were down to the whims of the incumbent at the time.   Some were very good and added more detail but more often than not the bare minimum of information was given.

I would say the marriage in Trinidad 1825 is indeed a red herring.  He and Priscilla seem to have been ensconced in Woolwich friom 1820 (from childrens baptisms) and he was discharged from the army 31/7/1825 in Woolwich and the army record you mention states his admission to the Royal Hospital Chelsea admission register on 1/8/1825.

I hope I've explained the points you mentioned satisfactorily.

Annette         
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Horn8397

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Re: Obtaining a Marriage Cert
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 05 October 17 16:10 BST (UK) »
Hi Annette,

You're a star, you have indeed answered all my queries.  In your latest response I have learnt a great deal on how the recording system worked at the time.  I'm not sure where to go from here but I have a meeting soon with a genealogy group I belong to who is having a guest speaker who is specialises in  genealogy so I will pick his brains.  I just admit with my present knowledge and experience I find it very difficult to navigate in FindMyPast and Ancestry.co.uk

Thanks again for all your help and advice

Regards


Offline josey

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Re: Obtaining a Marriage Cert
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 05 October 17 16:20 BST (UK) »
All very clearly & concisely put, Annette!!
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline Daisypetal

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Re: Obtaining a Marriage Cert
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 05 October 17 18:02 BST (UK) »
Hi,

I found the Pricilla HASWELL, with the same marriage details as Allen by putting in the name Priscilla, West Indies and 1825 in the search boxes. Her result came up because she has an unusual name, but if you try with, for instance "Mary" you get 78 results to check through. It would be helpful if they included the page number in the search boxes.

I suggested getting the marriage certificate to as much discount the marriage as prove it, sometimes that is the only way to be sure.



I have found this by searching the newspapers at FindMyPast,

Surrey Comet 14 May 1870
ROYAL CAMBRIDGE ASYLUM FOR SOLDIERS' WIVES
Priscilla HEDLEY was married twice; her first husband served in the 4th Foot at Salamanca, Vittoria, St. Sebastian: also at Washington, Baltimore, New Orleans and Waterloo: Her second husband had served 23 years in the Royal Artillery, and was accidentally killed in the discharge of his duties.


I've just transcribed the part which concerns Priscilla, but now you are a member you will be able to see the full article :)


I think the phrase "accidentally killed in the discharge of his duties." means just in the duties of his job rather than Army duties as I also found these articles,



West Kent Guardian 02 September 1843
An Inquest was held on Monday at the Fortune of War, Woolwich on the body of Allen HEDLEY, whose accident we reported on in last week's Guardian, and who died on Sunday from the effects of the injuries he received in the neck. The Jury returned a verdict of "Accidental Death"


which although they have his first name wrong seems to refer to this frank account of a horrible accident.


West Kent Guardian 19 August 1843
WOOLWICH
Accident - In the forenoon of Wednesday last, George HEDLEY, formerly a Sergeant in the Royal Artillery, but now pensioned. and who assists in the store-keepers department in the Arsenal met with a most serious accident. Whilst one of the fatigue carts of the Royal Artillery was being loaded from the store he caught hold of the horse's head in order to back the cart, when the animal plunged forward, knocked him down, and trampled on the back part of his neck, by which several of the vertebrae were so much injured that there is no hope of his surviving.


How awful.


Just to let you know, I've found that the search function doesn't always give results in the newspaper search at FindMyPast as the transcriptions can be quite odd, for example the last article had Hedley as Iledley, I only found it by searching for the newspaper referred to in the previous article.
West Kent Guardian, August 1843, and Accident in the search box. I always try to find different ways to search the newspapers as sometimes you find new results.


So now we are looking for a widowed Priscilla who marries Allen HEDLEY. There is a chance that she didn't marry him or her first husband legally. Although I can only find half of it, this book gives an idea about women/wives and there roles in the British Army,

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kua/

Regards,
Daisy
All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

Offline Horn8397

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Re: Obtaining a Marriage Cert
« Reply #15 on: Monday 09 October 17 18:01 BST (UK) »
Hi All

I'm back after a very busy weekend.  Thank you all for your recent responses.  I have found (on Ancestry, England Select Birth & Christenings) a birth and baptism record for William James Hedley b 26/01/1822, bp 03/03/1822, the latter was at Scots Church, Woolwich. The FHL film No is 0597070 (RG4 1993), whatever that is.  Very strange that the birth and baptism dates are the same as the one that Annette found with a miss spelt surname, but the baptism was held at a different church.  Unless of course Scots Church was a local name for St Andrews which would make sense.

What I'm really struggling with is the information from Daisy.  I just cannot find my way around the National Archives to retrieve the WO23 information that she obtained. 

I'm still sorting through all the other leads you have all provided

Many thanks.

Regards

Offline Daisypetal

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Re: Obtaining a Marriage Cert
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 10 October 17 16:27 BST (UK) »
Hi,

I'm sorry that I didn't explain how I found the WO 23 record :-[

I think I just put "Allen Hedley" into the search box here,

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

and found this record,

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

it says the record is available at FindMyPast so I followed the linked and search for him there and found the record I gave you. I've just noticed that there is a service record for him there as well, both with images :)



I expect you've found these by now but just in case,


I think the RG 4 1993 reference you have is for,

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2491360

I'm not a member of the Genealogist so can't see the further info on searches.



The FHL film no. refers to the Family History Library Catalog,

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Introduction_to_the_FamilySearch_Catalog

You can search for the film number here,

https://www.familysearch.org/search

or here,

https://www.familysearch.org/catalog/search


Regards,
Daisy
All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)