Author Topic: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?  (Read 8160 times)

Offline Tiffany84

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Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« on: Monday 09 October 17 15:00 BST (UK) »
Hi, I am a new member and wonder if anyone can suggest a way forward. I know from my grandfather that my great-grandfather was Thomas  Harris from Honiton and my Great-Grandmother was Emily Stoneham of Shirenewton in Monmouthshire.  Through Ancestry I have traced Emily back to Shirenewton and identified her family(father George Stoneham).  In 1881 census she was a domestic servant out of position.
By 1891 she is in Manchester (Stretford) with Thomas Harris (wrongly transcribed as James) and by now she has 2 children born in Monmouth.   However, I cannot trace a Thomas Harris to fit in with Honiton and his given approximation of Birth 1863.  There are a few Thomas Harris's around that period but when I follow them through the census to the 1891 census it does not gel. Thomas is shown as a 'Hatter' when in Manchester although my Grandad said he was a dock-worker. Following the stay in Stretford the family relocated to Ringley near Bolton where they settled  and where my Grandad was born and raised.  There is an added complication in that Emily Stoneham had a sister Elizabeth who also seemingly married a Harris.  In this case it was Edwin Harris and he was born and lived in Monmouthshire.   I cannot trace Thomas prior to the 1891 census. I cannot trace a marriage for Emily and Thomas and no baptism records for any of their children prior to their arrival in Ringley.  At this point they became regular church-goers and I remember Grandad telling me this.  All the subsequent children were baptised and I can trace records.  I am beginning to wonder if Harris truly was his given surname or if he had adopted that name to hide some trouble etc in his past.  It seems a coincidence that he had the same surname as his sister-in law's husband.  Also it seems odd that I cannot trace the marriage and baptisms of his children, considering he was a religious person.   I cannot trace my Great-grandfather back before 1891.My search is made more difficult because of my inability to access any Monmouth parish records.  I wonder if he travelled up to Wales and met Emily whilst she was in-service. I really have come to a dead-end and wonder if anyone can suggest a way forward?

Offline lizdb

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 09 October 17 15:13 BST (UK) »
Hi and a warm welcome to Rootschat!

Just to get some facts in front of us, here is the 1891 census.

You say "wrongly transcribed" as James, but if you look at the image it clearly says James, so if there is any error, it is not with the transcription!

1891
4 Atkinson Street, Stretford
James Harris 28 Hatter bn Devon Honiton
Emily 28 bn Monmouthshire
William 9 bn Monmouthshire
Annie 6 bn Monmouthshire
Henry 2 bn Manchester
Eliza 3 mths bn Stretford
William Brown 31 boarder bricklayer bn Canada
William Smith 47 boarder bn Manch.

and 1901
130 Prospect Place Outwood LAncs
Tom Harris 38 Railway Tunnel hewer bn Honiton
Emily 37 bn Monmouthshire
William 18 coal hewer bn Monmouthsh.
Ann 16 bn Monm.
Henry 12 bn Ardwick Lancs
Eliza 10  bn MAnchester
Edith 8 bn Manch.
Tom 5    bn MAnch.
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Tiffany84

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 09 October 17 15:28 BST (UK) »
Hi There , thanks so much for replying ! We are on the same records!  I at first thought it said 'James' too but then looking at it and with aid of magnification it can be read as 'Thomas' too. 
He also worked at times as a sewage worker.   The 'Hatter' bit seems a tad strange as most of his employment seemed to be manual.
Just to clarify further, Outwood is a small sub-district of Ringley The two are one and the same! Both are near Bolton in Lancashire.  My Grandad's Family settled there.

Offline janan

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 09 October 17 15:42 BST (UK) »
Hi

Welcome to Rootschat :D

There is a James Harris born Payhembury (not far from Honiton) in 1863 who would be worth checking out not least because he has a brother called Edwin you can see them in Payhembury in 1871 RG10/2045/45 Pg 10


Jan

Can't be him as he remains in Devon 1891-1911
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge


Offline Lostris

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #4 on: Monday 09 October 17 15:43 BST (UK) »
for which children have you found GRO Index entries & thus Birth Certs ?

So far I've only found Edith ...

Name:    Mother's Maiden Surname:     

HARRIS, EDITH        STONEHAM      
GRO Reference: 1893  M Quarter in CHORLTON  Volume 08C  Page 982

Offline lizdb

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #5 on: Monday 09 October 17 15:45 BST (UK) »
What I an finding strange is that I cant see a birth reg for the earlier children. Can see Thomas in 1895 and Edith in 1893, but not those before that.



(Snap Lostris - we are following the same train of thought!)

Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline lizdb

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #6 on: Monday 09 October 17 15:52 BST (UK) »
Just a thought - maybe a complete red herring, and the age is way out ....

....but is this guy worth a second look?

1881
Temperence Hotel, Newport MONMOUTHSHIRE
Lots of boarders (as you would expect at a hotel) incl:
Thomas J Harris, 48, married, commercial traveller, bn Stonehouse Devon
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online KGarrad

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #7 on: Monday 09 October 17 16:01 BST (UK) »
Emily is also a puzzle?

I can see a marriage for her father, George:

June qtr 1857
Chepstow Registration District     vol 11a, page 25

Stoneham, George
+ and, on the same page +
Painter, Eliza
Sunday, Mary Ann

And Birth Registrations for Matilda and William (Emily's siblings), with Mother's Maiden Name of Painter. But nothing for Emily?


1881 census
RG11/5218/19/8
Shirenewton, Monmouthshire, Wales

Stoneham, George  Head  Widower  M  56  Ag Lab  b Thornbury, Gloucestershire
Stoneham, Emily  Daughter  F  18  b Shirenewton
Stoneham, Matilda  Daughter  F  16  b Shirenewton
Stoneham, William  Son  M  14  b Shirenewt
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline lizdb

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #8 on: Monday 09 October 17 16:09 BST (UK) »
Nor for Elizabeth (age 9 on 1871)   
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk