James Stewart Gellatly born Arbroath c.1840

[Forfarian]

41 is  not too old to have children. My 3 x great granny had her last child in her early 40s in 1833.

No, of course, but it is unusually old to be having an illegitimate child in 1840-ish.

Alternatively, Lilly could be disguising her relationship to James.

That aws what was crossing my mind.

Interesting that she is described as a pauper. That means, specifically, that she was receiving relief, probably money, from a parochial board. I have no idea whether or not the St Andrews and St Leonards parochial board records have survived, and if so, where they are, but f they are available you definitely want to take a look at them, because they may tell you all sorts of fascinating detail about Lilly's life and circumstances.

[Rosinish]

(Annie ~ not sure why you suggest that  a widow might be more likely to have a child in her 40s than a single woman    )

Thanks for the list of children Gadget, that does help even without solid proof (although seems very, very likely) & helps us who are trying to help.

My reference was not inferring whether more or less likely to have an illegitimate child but merely taking into account the info. provided earlier...

"James' parents shown as John Gellatly (mason) and Lily Gellatly (maiden name Kirk) both deceased at the time of James' marriage"

I'm actually wondering why she would state 'Unmarried' if she was REALLY a 'Widow' 

I don't think she was the mother of James but I think she may have brought him up although that's my own assumption from what's been found so far 

Michael...

If, during the 1851 census, James' mum Lilly had been married to John and John was dead at this time would she show her maiden name? Odd how she has her maiden name on the census?

Yes, it was not unknown for Scottish Widows to revert back to their maiden names but they would usually have 'Widow' rather than 'Unmarried' as their status on a census 

Annie

[Gadget]

If, during the 1851 census, James' mum Lilly had been married to John and John was dead at this time would she show her maiden name? Odd how she has her maiden name on the census?

See the snip of the 1851 entry that I posted earlier- she is down as unmarried . She would have completed the census schedule or told a person who filled it in for her. The enumerator may have mistranscribed it in his book but .....

Forfarian - James might not have been her first child - just keeping options open

Gadget

Added -too many postings to follow sequentially 

[Liviani]

Given that Lilly is not easily found in 1841 leads me to believe she may have been using a different name in 1841 or it's been mis-transcribed on SP and other places.

Could Lilly be a diminutive of Elizabeth? If she was living with someone else who they may have thought her name was Elizabeth? I'm not sure, I mean I checked FreeCen for 1841 on Elizabeth Kirks between 30 and 45 (ages were rounded then so had to widen it) in St Andrews and there are 3. None that particularly jump out at me. You may want to have a look and see what you think though.

[MichaelLyke]

Yes, just thinking that. So, next step is to check out her siblings - thank you. I'll get working on it over the next week 

[Gadget]

Usual alternative to Lily is Lilias (alt spellings)  - did some checks on that but nothing.

Did you look for a will for George?

[Rosinish]

Given that Lilly is not easily found in 1841 leads me to believe she may have been using a different name in 1841 or it's been mis-transcribed on SP and other places.

Could Lilly be a diminutive of Elizabeth?

Liviani,

I checked SP without an initial only the surname of KIRK but I haven't found anyone YET (still more to check) in other areas.

Annie

[Liviani]

Given that Lilly is not easily found in 1841 leads me to believe she may have been using a different name in 1841 or it's been mis-transcribed on SP and other places.

Could Lilly be a diminutive of Elizabeth?

Liviani,

I checked SP without an initial only the surname of KIRK but I haven't found anyone YET (still more to check) in other areas.

Annie

Hi Annie, I've been doing the same with no luck anywhere. SP keeps crashing on me tonight as well. 

[Gadget]

On the baptism entry, George was a baker and the witnesses (sponsors) were Alexander and George Kirk - worth chasing up Alexander.