Author Topic: Thomas Maddox Apples for Jamestown 1623  (Read 2568 times)

Offline Llanfihangel

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Thomas Maddox Apples for Jamestown 1623
« on: Monday 16 October 17 07:45 BST (UK) »
Reference on-line article: “THE SKYDMORES/ SCUDAMORES OF HOLME LACY, HEREFORDSHIRE, and their descendants at BALLINGHAM, TREWORGAN & FOWNHOPE, including Accomack County, Virginia. edited by Linda Moffatt © from the original work of Warren Skidmore”

Topic.......

I am researching some of the activities of the Virginia Company in Jamestown in the very early 1600’s. In particular, I have a record of a Thomas Maddox, (killed in the 1622 Massacre), who travelled to Jamestown in 1620 as an “adventurer” with the Virginia Company.

He had a large consignment of apples sent to him on the “Marmaduke” in 1623, they must have arrived just after his death. The consignment was large enough to indicate that they were for cultivation in Virginia. If so, Thomas must have had sufficient alternative resources to sustain him in Jamestown for a period of years until the seedlings bore fruit. He probably sought some expertise in selecting suitable varieties for the American climate and the production of cider.

Records show that apple orchards were numerous and fruitful by about 1640 in Jamestown... They were grown mostly for the production of cider.

I think that Thomas Maddox may have sought the advice of Sir John Scudamore on the cultivation of apples, may have purchased his apple consignment from Holme Lacy, and may have had a business relationship with Sir John Scudamore. Sir John and his father Sir James had investments  in the Virginia Company, entailing the allocation of large acreages of cultivatable land. The Virginia Company records state that there were abundant apple orchards in Jamestown by the 1640’s. Perhaps the consignment included the famous “Red Streak” variety

An Alexander Maddox, possibly the son of Thomas Maddox, emigrated to Jamestown on the “Abraham”  in 1635 and was well established in Northampton (formerly Accomack County) soon afterwards. That is where Thomas, the son of Thomas Scudamore of Fownhope landed in 1672.

There may be also be a historical link between the Maddox (Madoc) family and the Scydmores. The referenced article states that  “John Skydmore had the manor of Strangford in Sellack, Herefordshire, on 1 November 1417 from John ap Joan ap Madoc of Kynbryg” I have been unable to identify Kynbryg, but it may have been Cynrig near Llanfrynach, Breconshire; the seat of the ancient Madoc family.

I would be very interested to know if anyone has any records of Thomas Maddox and if the apples of Holme Lacy were actually sent to America. The consignment on the “Marmaduke” may have been the progenitors of the very first orchards there!

Thank you for your attention! Comments will be apreciated!

Llanfi :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Pugh, Powell, Williams, Maddox, Prosser

Offline Gibel

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Re: Thomas Maddox Apples for Jamestown 1623
« Reply #1 on: Monday 16 October 17 10:21 BST (UK) »
I would suggest you investigate where the Scudamore of Holme Lacey records are lodged. These may somewhere contain the information you are looking for. A quick google shows that some are at the National Archives, some are at Herefordshire Archives and some elsewhere.

Online KGarrad

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Re: Thomas Maddox Apples for Jamestown 1623
« Reply #2 on: Monday 16 October 17 10:41 BST (UK) »
I found the following online, in an article named "Herefordshire Through Time; Cider":


Modern fruit varieties used in Herefordshire and the West of England can be traced back to the pioneering work of Viscount Scudamore of Holme Lacy in the 17th century. Scudamore was ambassador to the court of Louis XIII during the reign of Charles II (That was from 1635 until 1639)  and returned from France with a collection of cider fruit from Normandy. These he used to improve English stocks, through cross-pollination and the development of seedlings. Cider rapidly becomes the national drink. It is reputed that more cider-houses than ale-houses were licensed in London during the reign of Charles II.

Amongst these seedlings was the Herefordshire Redstrake or Redstreak, the apple that was to put Herefordshire cider on the map as one that was unequalled in Britain. Within ten years over 5,000 Herefordshire Redstreak apple trees had been planted across the West Country.


https://htt.herefordshire.gov.uk/herefordshires-past/the-post-medieval-period/agriculture-and-industry/herefordshire-agriculture/cider/

For my sins, I run the Cider & Perry Bar at the CAMRA Isle of Man Beer & Cider Festival.
This year I had a cider made solely from Redstreak apples!
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)


Offline Llanfihangel

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Re: Thomas Maddox Apples for Jamestown 1623
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 18 October 17 06:24 BST (UK) »
Thank you KGarrad and Gibel for your information,

I have a bit more information that may promote my Scudamore theory:

It seems that there were no European apples in Jamestown in 1607 but they were plentiful by 1629 .......

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/apples-of-your-eye-71328777/

When the first colonists arrived at Jamestown, Virginia, in 1607, there were no cultivated fruit trees in America—save for a few scattered Indian plantings—only wild crab apples, cherries, plums and persimmons. Taking a bite into a persimmon, Capt. John Smith commented, could "draw a man's mouth awry."
How much Smith influenced the subsequent introduction of new fruits to America is unknown. What is clear is that many colonists brought seeds, cuttings and small plants on the voyage over from Europe. Among the first to take root here was the May Duke cherry, the Calville Blanc d'Hiver apple, the Moor Park apricot and the Green Gageplum. Over the course of the next 300 years, the New World would experience a virtual revolution in the number and quality of apple and other fruit varieties.

https://www.bbg.org/gardening/article/the_apple_in_north_america

Early attempts at fruit growing were apparently quite successful. In 1629, Smith noted that peaches, apples, apricots, and figs "prosper[ed] exceedingly" in the colony. In 1642, the first governor of Virginia, William Berkley, cultivated some 1,500 fruit trees at his Green Spring estate, and two years later, he decreed that every planter must, "for every 500 acres granted him ... enclose and fence a quarter-acre of ground near his dwelling house for orchards and gardens."

I found the next bits of information about apples very interesting...


https://www.quora.com/How-long-should-it-take-on-average-to-grow-fruit-after-planting-an-apple-seed-Granny-Smith-tree

Some 10 to 15 years. But you will never see any Granny Smith apples growing on your seedling tree! The tree will be a “wildling”, meaning a non-grafted tree, producing either tiny, hard apples or larger ones that are not very appealing at all. Here in Switzerland, we have many apple trees grown for juice. Lots of these fruit get eaten by animals, as they fall off in fall.
Some of the seeds sprout in the forest, growing into small, many branched trees. They flower like an apple tree, but only animals will eat the fruit. Sometimes, you get an edible variety, and if you plant and care for thousands of seedlings, you are likely to discover a few varieties with interesting taste.
These you then use for grafting: You cut newly growing, small branches, cut the trunk off of the seedling and unite the seedling with the branch. When done right, the branch will keep growing, forming a tree with good, interesting-tasting apples.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/long-apple-trees-grow-up-first-harvest-58315.html

How Long for Apple Trees to Grow Up to First Harvest?
Apple trees sold in nurseries consist of a scion, or twig, of an apple variety grafted onto a rootstock. The type of rootstock determines the size of the tree and how long it will take to bear apples
A  seedling of any apple variety will grow into a tree from 12 to 20 feet high and take six to 10 years to bear apples. You can reduce the size of a tree and shorten its bearing time by planting specially developed rootstocks with a grafted scion of the apple variety you want. Although an apple will sometimes grow a few apples the first or second year after you plant it, you should not let those apples mature. The tree needs to use all of its energy to get established.

It seems that trying to grow edible apples from seeds would have been extremely frustrating for the pioneers in Jamestown. It would have been far better to plant apple scions, and probably necessary to have achieve such an abundance of desirable apples by 1642.  These orchards would have been grown from second- and  third- generation scions. If Thomas Maddox had planted his apples in 1623, as he had planned, they could easily have been among Berkley's harvest nineteen years later in 1642.

So Thomas Maddox would have been well-advised to import scions to Jamestown... And if so, maybe the Hereford Redstreak ( or a predecessor at Holme Lacy apple) was carefully selected for cider production! Maybe Viscount Scudamore was the expert advisor...

Comments will be greatly appreciated!!

Llanfi  :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Pugh, Powell, Williams, Maddox, Prosser

Online KGarrad

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Re: Thomas Maddox Apples for Jamestown 1623
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 18 October 17 09:07 BST (UK) »
In England, cider production is split into Eastern Counties style and West Country style.
In the East they tend to use dessert apples and cooking apples for cider.
In the West (including Herefordshire), they use specific varieties of cider apples - in much the same way that wine production uses specific varieties of grapes.
Historically many crab apple and russets were used.

These cider apples are divided into sweets, sharps, bittersweets and bittersharps - and you wouldn't want to eat any of them!

Modern cider-makers reckon they get a first harvest from new orchards in 5 years.
Contrast with perry pear trees which take 20 years!

Heritage apple varieties, used for (hard) cider, in the USA include:
Golden Russet (Sharp)
Harrison (Sharp)
Newtown/Albemarle Pippin (Sharp)
Roxbury Russet (Sharp)
Virginia Crab (Bittersharp)
Winesap (Sharp)

Other varieties (in use today) originated in England & France.
(Research by WSU Mount Vernon MWREC)

See also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cider_in_the_United_States
Which has some info on the history, and varieties of apple used.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline Llanfihangel

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Re: Thomas Maddox Apples for Jamestown 1623
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 18 October 17 20:49 BST (UK) »
Thanks KGarrad

Good information on cider produiction. I always thought that crab apples were the best for cider, especially in Somerset..

I note the estimate of 5 years to get a productive tree from a scion. If Maddox's apple scions were planted in 1623, they would be bearing fruit in the summer of 1629, just in time for Smith's comment that apples were flourishing in Virginia..

Of course, other plantation pioneers could have imported apples before Thomas Maddox, but the Marmaduke record is the only reference to apples for Virginia that I can find.

Does anyone have a comment on the likely survival rate of apple scions shipped across the Atlantic in the Marmaduke in 1623?

Also, I understand that most apple trees will not cross-pollinate with different species, so maybe there were a couple of different kinds of apple scions sent to Virginia. Thomas Maddox's cargo manifesto has two lots of apples for him. Maybe one was a second variety?

Cheers
Llanfi  :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Pugh, Powell, Williams, Maddox, Prosser

Offline Llanfihangel

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Re: Thomas Maddox Apples for Jamestown 1623
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 18 October 17 23:25 BST (UK) »

Hi!
More info on the first Virginia apples:

I now think it likely that the first Virginia apple trees were grown using European apple tree scions grafted onto local apple rootstock..
I found this information on the Web...
"The apple, Malus domestica, is considered to be self-unfruitful. • All apple cultivars (varieties) require the pollen of a different cultivar to set a crop of fruit. • A pollen source and transfer must be provided for these cultivars.
By taking a cutting of the fruit variety that is intended to be grafted, and properly attaching it to another tree or ROOTSTOCK THAT IS GENETICALLY COMPATIBLE, you in essence can build a new tree to suit your needs – whether that be for flavor, preserve old genetics, trial new varieties, or for climatic factors that are suited to your growing spot.
Rootstock – Rootstock comes in in many different types.  Usually they are selected for their dwarfing traits, their resistance to certain blights, or their abilities for growing in certain conditions.  Just remember, use APPLE for APPLE, pear for pear, etc..
Scionwood – Scion wood can be collected from neighborhood trees, local orchards, etc.  Store them in a plastic bag, with a lightly damp moist towel and they can keep for up to a few months."
Llanfi: note that scions will keep for a few months, better than apples, I expect they had a good alternative for plastic bags in 1623!! Anyway, with proper care, they could easily survive a lengthy transatlantic crossing on the Marmaduke.
Any takers on the local apple trees that might have been used for rootstock?

Cheers,
Llanfi  :) :) :) :) :)
Pugh, Powell, Williams, Maddox, Prosser

Offline Llanfihangel

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Re: Thomas Maddox Apples for Jamestown 1623
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 19 October 17 00:08 BST (UK) »
Hi,
I am sending this to confirm my speculations about the apples sent to Jamestown on the Marmaduke
It seems that Thomas Maddox may have been cooperating with the Virginia Company. I am looking to see if the Marmaduke was a pinnace!!

Thanks to all of you!

Llanfi :) :) :) :)
Pugh, Powell, Williams, Maddox, Prosser

Offline Jean Maddox Petty

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Re: Thomas Maddox Apples for Jamestown 1623
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 29 December 19 04:17 GMT (UK) »
Hi there,   I just found this website and your note on Thomas Maddox.  Thomas is my line. I have some information on Thomas selling apples.  You may already have this but if not, hope this helps.   Jean Maddox Petty

The records of the Virginia Company read for July 18 [Citation:  Records of the Virginia Company of London, Vol. I (The Court Book), pg. 418]:
Every man transported into Virginia with intent there to inhabit as Tenants to the common land of the Company, or to the publike land shall be freely landed there at the charge of the company:  and shal be furnished with provisions of victuall for one whole [18] yeare next after his arrivall....He shall enjoy the ratable moyite of all the profits that shall be raised of the land on which he shall be Planted, as well Corne and Cattle....the other halfe being due to the Owners of the Land.  He shall be tyed by Covenant to continue upon that Land for the Terme of seaven yeares....

Of these persons one hundred and twenty (such as are to be Tenants) are to be shipped here [from London] for Virginia by the midst of August now at hand: and the rest in January and February ensuing....Now if the Adventurors be thus requested....the persons to be admitted to goe as the companies-Tenants....repairing to the citie of London to Mr. Ferrar Deputy to the Company, his house in St. sithes land in the beginning of August, and in the middle of January next....shall from thence-forward be entertained at the companies charge til such time as they be shipped for Virginia....

Given in a General Court held for Virginia the eighteenth of July 1620.

Names of the Adventurers with their severall summes adventured, paid to Sir Thomas Smith, Kngiht, late Treasurer of the Company for Virginia....[alphabetical list]....THOMAS MADDOCK 25 lb [libra/pounds].
On November 13, 1620, Thomas bought two shares.  The record reads in Vol. I, pg. 204 and 418, and  Vol. III, pg. 62:
                                                                 THOMAS MADDOX gent. passed one bill of 25 li ]libra/pounds] to mr. Stubbs.

                                                                  Shareholders in the Virginia Company from March 6, 1615 to June 9, 1623.
                                                                        1620 Novem. 13 THOMAS MADDOCKS to Mr Stubbs....02 shares."
The reason we know that Thomas had an apple orchard is that, in September of 1623, Records of the Virginia Company of London, Vol. IV, pg. 281 & 282 says that provisions were sent to Virginia in the Marmaduke and apparently the settlers were paid on its arrival back from England for what they had sent to England earlier.   Probably the moneys were paid into his estate.
The moneys paid for them.... 

To Mr Maddox for appel
8li    6sh    6d

For more appell of Mr Maddox
0li    16sh   6d

Thomas apparently died that same year of 1623.  Was it lingering wounds from the Indian massacre, or disease, or an accident?    On February 16, 1623, he was reported among the dead at Warwick's Squrak, a plantation near Jamestown.