Author Topic: Help with two place names  (Read 2586 times)

Offline Jomot

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,087
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Help with two place names
« on: Sunday 22 October 17 11:26 BST (UK) »
Can anyone help me with a couple of place names from the 1851 census please, one in Carmarthenshire and the other Glamorgan.

Census refs if anyone wants to look them up are HO107/2460/145/23 David Thomas, and what I think is his daughter, Ann Jenkins, HO107/2460/146/25 - top place name please.

GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham. North Yorkshire. MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  JACKSON: East Yorks, North Yorks, Durham. TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Online osprey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,120
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help with two place names
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 22 October 17 15:18 BST (UK) »
wonder if the second one is meant to be Llangiwg, often written as Llanguicke

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/Llangiwg

List of place names in Carmarthenshire here, if that helps

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Gazetteer#L
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Jomot

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,087
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help with two place names
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 22 October 17 18:59 BST (UK) »
Thanks Osprey - this family is driving me to distraction!

I have a possible for David Thomas in 1861 giving a place of birth as Llandeilo, Glamorgan, although Llandeilo is actually Carmarthenshire.  Would you say that's a reasonable match for the 1851 image too, or just wishful thinking on my part?

If Llandeilo is correct then I've found another daughter, but I'm just not sure. 
GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham. North Yorkshire. MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  JACKSON: East Yorks, North Yorks, Durham. TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Online osprey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,120
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help with two place names
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 22 October 17 20:00 BST (UK) »
there's a Llandeilo in Glam too, Llandeilo Talybont and it's the neighbouring parish to Llangyfelach the parish where daughter Hanah was born.

But there's an age difference between that David Thomas and yours from 1851. I think yours is with his daughter Catherine in 1861. She was enumerated as Thomas in 1851 but married. I think she would have been Adam(s), marriage june qtr 1847, son Thomas also in the 1851 household.

1861 Moss Row (same as 1851)  RG9/4069 folio 44 pg 11
John Adams head mar 45 lab b. Carms, Laugharne
Catherine wife 35 b. Clydach
Thos son 13 b. Aberdare
Ann dau 9 b. Aberdare
Catherine dau 5? b. Aberdare
David son 3 b. Aberdare
George Hughes lodger 33 labourer b. Carms, Llandisant
David Thomas lodger widower 74 b. Wilts, Calne
Wm Parry ? lodger 38 b. Carms, Midrym
Ann Davies servant 13 b. Aberdare
It look like the enumerator may have mixed up places of birth, Catherine 35 should have been born Aberdare as she was in 1851 & shows as in 1871. David may have been born Llanddeusant which is what I think the place of birth given for George Hughes is meant to be. Possible baptism 5 Feb 1786 in Llanddeusant son of Griffith Thomas.

 :-\
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline Jomot

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,087
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help with two place names
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 22 October 17 22:38 BST (UK) »
Thank goodness for another pair of eyes, I've been staring at this for days & getting nowhere. 

I'd been considering the Moss Row one as I knew Catherine Adams was his daughter and Ann Davis is his granddaughter, but it was the PoB of Calne that threw me and made me consider Hannah as a possible daughter too - especially as her daughter was another Catherine.

Whether Ann Jenkins is his also daughter is a whole different puzzle, but perhaps that's for another day!

Thanks again.
GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham. North Yorkshire. MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  JACKSON: East Yorks, North Yorks, Durham. TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Online Mabel Bagshawe

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,953
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help with two place names
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 26 October 17 23:34 BST (UK) »
Definitely the Moss row one

Tarian y Gweithwyr - 10th August 1905. (translated)

Deaths in America

JONES - May 6, 1905, Bloomington, Ill., Mrs Catherine A Jones. She was born 29 Jan 1825, in the Cwmtwrch area of the Swansea valley, and she lived to celebrate her 80th birthday. Her parents were Dafydd a Catherine Thomas, who moved to Abernant, Aberdare, and lived in Moss Row, where they were members of the old Heol y felin meeting house. The departed married John Adams, who farmed in  Abernant for years with R Fothergill. He hailed from Hafod Fach, Meidrim, near Carmarthen and died  25 March, 1870. They were faithful members of Ebenezer Congregational Church , Heol y Felin, under the ministry of the Rev Wm Edwards. they had two sons,  Thomas and Dafydd, and two daughters, Catherine in Chicago, and  Ann currently in Aberdare, the widow of our friend and true Christian Thos Morgan, who died suddenly in Barry, on a Sunday School trip from Aberdare 5 years ago. After burying her husband she and her two sons moved to Alton, Ill, to be with her sister and there she married Eynon R  Jones who was buried 15 years ago. she moved to Bloomington 12 years ago.  Mrs Jones had an honourable funeral, ministered by the Rev A M Conard, of the local Congregational church, and Dr Richard Edwards. Rest in peace my beloved and godly mother

Offline Jomot

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,087
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help with two place names
« Reply #6 on: Friday 27 October 17 11:35 BST (UK) »
Mabel, thank you so much for this! 

The mention of a sister in Illinois is fantastic, as I'm currently awaiting a marriage certificate for someone I suspected was Catherine's sister (Ann) & who moved to Illinois in 1851 & was buried at North Alton, so this seems to confirm it - brilliant  :D

I descend from another of Catherine's sisters who I simply cannot find after her marriage so I'm hoping the various certs I've ordered will give me some clues, but this article gives some great background information, including some new chapels to track down as until now I only knew of an association to Carmel Chapel.

Today is feeling like a good day ;D
GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham. North Yorkshire. MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  JACKSON: East Yorks, North Yorks, Durham. TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Online Mabel Bagshawe

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,953
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help with two place names
« Reply #7 on: Friday 27 October 17 20:03 BST (UK) »
what do you suspect was Ann's surname at death - I can have a look in the Welsh newspapers online collection in case that's also reported, as certain of them are quite good at regularly reporting on the expat community in the States, and the database includes Y Drych, a welsh language paper published over there

Online Mabel Bagshawe

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,953
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help with two place names
« Reply #8 on: Friday 27 October 17 21:56 BST (UK) »
Catherine's second husband Eynon R Jones died 14 March 1890 aged 65 in North Alton. Sadly the paper carries no info on wife, family, mourners etc that might help

here's Catherine and son Thomas in 1900
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MS4H-52S