Author Topic: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross  (Read 10780 times)

Offline littlesis 76

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« Reply #144 on: Saturday 28 December 19 19:21 GMT (UK) »
I found what I thought was a death of James Halliwell Morris aged 79 in Manchester,he married Elizabeth Blackwell in 1870 I think but after looking at the family for ages I noticed the burial was 6th Dec !
Very frustrating

Offline louisa maud

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,089
    • View Profile
Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« Reply #145 on: Saturday 28 December 19 20:20 GMT (UK) »
Why not if death was 5th December, could have been a quick burial

Louisa Maud
Census information is Crown Copyright,
from  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Granath Sweden and London
Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes kent and London

Offline louisa maud

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,089
    • View Profile
Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« Reply #146 on: Sunday 29 December 19 09:14 GMT (UK) »
I have gone back to the beginning with this topic

If Martina is the child of Harriet and Walter I am wondering why she wasn't baptised as such soon after birth, I found 4 other Shave sibling's all belonging to Walter and Harriet baptised soon after birth, no Martina

Louisa Maud
Census information is Crown Copyright,
from  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Granath Sweden and London
Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes kent and London

Offline avm228

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,818
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« Reply #147 on: Sunday 29 December 19 09:22 GMT (UK) »
Perhaps they were prepared to lie to the registrar but not the vicar?

It seem pretty clear she wasn’t Walter and Harriet’s natural child. Why she was registered as theirs is far from obvious, but likely to be either that she was genuinely intended to be brought up by them or that it was a deliberate artifice to provide her with apparent legitimacy despite her illegitimate birth.

If she was to be brought up by the Shaves, that plan may have changed after Walter’s early death. But it is puzzling why they, with a young family already, would have wanted to take on somebody else’s child in any event. In the absence of a family/friends link, one imagines a financial inducement is likely to have been involved.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)


Offline littlesis 76

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« Reply #148 on: Sunday 29 December 19 09:49 GMT (UK) »
I have gone back to the beginning with this topic

If Martina is the child of Harriet and Walter I am wondering why she wasn't baptised as such soon after birth, I found 4 other Shave sibling's all belonging to Walter and Harriet baptised soon after birth, no Martina

Because she wasn't there child ,we think they registered her for Martina and Benedict,he was married and Martina was hiding something (using false name Burwaw a year before baby Martina was born.

 Walter Shave died from syphilis and he had had it some time .I suspect the Shave were paid to register the baby .

Offline littlesis 76

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« Reply #149 on: Sunday 29 December 19 09:52 GMT (UK) »
Perhaps they were prepared to lie to the registrar but not the vicar?

It seem pretty clear she wasn’t Walter and Harriet’s natural child. Why she was registered as theirs is far from obvious, but likely to be either that she was genuinely intended to be brought up by them or that it was a deliberate artifice to provide her with apparent legitimacy despite her illegitimate birth.

If she was to be brought up by the Shaves, that plan may have changed after Walter’s early death. But it is puzzling why they, with a young family already, would have wanted to take on somebody else’s child in any event. In the absence of a family/friends link, one imagines a financial inducement is likely to have been involved.

Sorry avm I didn't see you had replied ,agree 100% with all your theories .Wonder how the 2 families even knew each other,maybe Harriet worked for Martina ?

Offline BenRalph

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« Reply #150 on: Sunday 29 December 19 11:26 GMT (UK) »
I've had a look for deaths with names Morris & Ross and here's all I came up with in the London area:

Donald Ross b 1848 d Q2 1928 Wandsworth
William Morris b 1848 d Q2 1928 Poplar

Would it be possible to post a clearer photo of the medals and maybe someone on the armed forces forum could identify them?

Offline BenRalph

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« Reply #151 on: Sunday 29 December 19 14:06 GMT (UK) »
Double post

Offline louisa maud

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,089
    • View Profile
Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« Reply #152 on: Sunday 29 December 19 14:46 GMT (UK) »
Donald Ross  appears on 1891 with wife Mary A (nee Lea), Merchant St Bromley St Leonard occupation Bank Clerk, born Scotland, there is also a step daughter Alice Lea born 1879 Bow, he and Mary A do not seem to have any children together
Donald's father is Duncan Ross

Alice Maude Clara Lea registered 1878 Bethnal Green, no MMN

Louisa Maud
Census information is Crown Copyright,
from  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Granath Sweden and London
Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes kent and London