Author Topic: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross  (Read 10778 times)

Offline BenRalph

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Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« Reply #153 on: Monday 30 December 19 09:53 GMT (UK) »
Donald Ross  appears on 1891 with wife Mary A (nee Lea), Merchant St Bromley St Leonard occupation Bank Clerk, born Scotland, there is also a step daughter Alice Lea born 1879 Bow, he and Mary A do not seem to have any children together
Donald's father is Duncan Ross

Alice Maude Clara Lea registered 1878 Bethnal Green, no MMN

Louisa Maud
There's a couple of coincidences there but nothing to connect to Benedict as of yet.

Offline louisa maud

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Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« Reply #154 on: Monday 30 December 19 10:09 GMT (UK) »
Frustrating isn't it?, there must be a reason why the change of names, we can only speculate

On Martina's marriage to Benedict her father is shown as "dec", no trace so far,  even just put in Picture frame maker and all variations, no joy, perhaps she thought she ought to put something on the cert and she made it up

I do wonder if "grandfather" born 1848 and died 1927/8 might be of the same generation as Benedict John Ross born 1858 in Scotland, we may never know. If we think about it the "grandfather " could be 1 of at least 4 men or 5 if you include the Fairweather name, also Shave, Ross, Morris and Bailey  unless Littlesis knows of any other family names, it might well be an adopted grandfather, someone she might have known most of her life but not a family member, now there's another thought !!

I am looking forward to the 1921 census, not so far away now

Louisa Maud

Ps, I have also checked on family trees on Ancestry to check dates, born 1848 died 1927/8, no joy
Census information is Crown Copyright,
from  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Granath Sweden and London
Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes kent and London

Offline louisa maud

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Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« Reply #155 on: Monday 30 December 19 10:14 GMT (UK) »
AVM wrote "It seem pretty clear she wasn’t Walter and Harriet’s natural child"

Was she Walters child, just a thought

Louisa Maud
Census information is Crown Copyright,
from  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Granath Sweden and London
Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes kent and London

Offline BenRalph

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Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« Reply #156 on: Monday 30 December 19 10:44 GMT (UK) »
Yes, very frustrating.

I searched 'picture frame maker's and Morris and found 1 man but I'm on my phone and can't recall his first name. If you look, he could be a brother to our Martina.

With regards to the registering of Martina jnr. we don't know who actually went in to see the registrar. We know it was a female and was passing herself off as the mother. We assume that it was Harriet Shave but adding Martina as a middle name. Same as Walter with Benedict. In fact, I think Martina and Benedict must be the parents as them names can't be plucked from the air and added as middle names. So we're back to finding why Walter and Harriet agreed to be put as parents. 1 person from each party must have been aware of what was going on as Martina wouldn't know the maiden name Bailey and the Shaves wouldn't know the Ross' first names and address.

I think we should look to see if there's anyone of significance under the name Morris dying between 1892 & 1898. Maybe she was hiding from her dad in 1892 and he died in between.

There really is very few options that are available to us with very little to go on.


Offline littlesis 76

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Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« Reply #157 on: Monday 30 December 19 11:40 GMT (UK) »
Looking at the Grandfathers the Fairweather one died 1936 ,but looking quickly I haven't researched the Shave one and it looks like his father was also Walter Shave but he was born in 1848 and he might be worth looking at as he was in Hampshire in 1871  and seemed he went to America
Update:
Actually looking at his tree it's just muddled too.He put Walter as father on his marriage to Harriet Bailey but if I have the right Walter Shave on 1871 census he is with his mother Mary A Shave and another man and she is a widow . There are a few trees on A for Walter and a couple of different fathers for him.
Will search Baileys to see .
I just think that Martina and Benedict were a different class to Walter and Harriet as awful as that sounds. They both signed with a mark on there wedding cert and Benedict grew up with servants etc and from what the lady said Murcia and Felicitias where "well to do".
I really dont think they were related but will look more ,I think they knew the Shaves,they probably knew he didnt have long to live  and a payment was made to registered their daughter .

Offline louisa maud

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Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« Reply #158 on: Monday 30 December 19 12:05 GMT (UK) »
Looked into Percy Sidney Morris, MMN Goudge/Gouge, born  1887,  although father William Frederick was a frame maker nothing jumps out,

Louisa Maud
Census information is Crown Copyright,
from  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Granath Sweden and London
Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes kent and London

Offline louisa maud

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Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« Reply #159 on: Monday 30 December 19 20:02 GMT (UK) »
Could Barwar be Barman?, just a thought

Louisa Maud
Census information is Crown Copyright,
from  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Granath Sweden and London
Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes kent and London

Offline BenRalph

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Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« Reply #160 on: Monday 30 December 19 20:54 GMT (UK) »
Could Barwar be Barman?, just a thought

Louisa Maud
FindMyPast has it as Burwash. It could be anything really.

Offline littlesis 76

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Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« Reply #161 on: Monday 30 December 19 22:37 GMT (UK) »
I have just found a Walter Jones living at 52 Messin Avenue in 1890 on electrol rolls .It has to be someone we need to trace,Martina Burwaw place her 1st advert in 1890 at same address