John Chambers c1669

[grandarog]

custody of the Bossolder until he shall marry . I don't know what the term "Bossover" refers to


For info :-   "Borsholder"   Kent regional name for a police constable.

[..claire..]

That's brilliant  I drove myself nuts trying to find out what that meant 

[MattD30]

Hi

I've looked at the registers and there isn't anything else that fits as well as what you have found.

I've looked at the register for the baptism of John and it clearly states the year on the baptism as 1644.

Susans baptism is also showing up in Shepherdswell too, which is right next to Sibertswold, both being less than a mile from Coldred, so feel you are spot on with your findings

Possibly they moved around for work ?

I have to tell you there are lots of Thomas Spaines in Kent : although I think he married in Whitfield

Thomas Spaine mar. Parnel Gosbey 2 Jun 1659 Whitfield.

Claire

Hi Claire

I agree that the christening in Whitfield is the most likely one. I have found the christening transcribed online as 5 Feb 1643 and 5 Feb 1644 and that's probably because of the old style calendar that was in use then.

I think I've also found what looks like the marriage of John's parents:

John Chambers and Mary Luknil - married 24 August 1641 in Whitfield.

I am certain that Susan Browning was from Sibbertswold and she appears to have had two brothers:

George and George - christened 28 March 1641 Shepherdswell (I don't know if they were twins).

I'm going to see if I can find some info on these in Wills and Marriage Licences in case they hold any more info.

I wonder if Thomas Spaine was a relative of either John or Susan?

I also now think that the Henry Chambers who was christened in Whitfied in 1678 must be part of this family as I can't see any other possible parents for him.

I now think that the John Chambers who married Ann Simonson can't be part of my family line as it looks like my John Chambers was from a different area. It just goes to show how awkward things get when there are lots of people marrying around the same time, all called "John"

Anyhow my next task is to see if I can find anything else of the Brownings or on Mary Luknil which might provide clues. I also want to try to trace Susan Bourne who married John Chambers (chr 1669) in 1690. Their marriage appears online twice, once with her name as Bourne and once as Bourke. I am unsure which is the correct spelling though.

Matt

[MattD30]

Hi

I've looked at the registers and there isn't anything else that fits as well as what you have found.

I've looked at the register for the baptism of John and it clearly states the year on the baptism as 1644.

Susans baptism is also showing up in Shepherdswell too, which is right next to Sibertswold, both being less than a mile from Coldred, so feel you are spot on with your findings

Possibly they moved around for work ?

I have to tell you there are lots of Thomas Spaines in Kent : although I think he married in Whitfield

Thomas Spaine mar. Parnel Gosbey 2 Jun 1659 Whitfield.

Claire

Hi Claire

I agree that the christening in Whitfield is the most likely one. I have found the christening transcribed online as 5 Feb 1643 and 5 Feb 1644 and that's probably because of the old style calendar that was in use then.

I think I've also found what looks like the marriage of John's parents:

John Chambers and Mary Luknil - married 24 August 1641 in Whitfield.

I am certain that Susan Browning was from Sibbertswold and she appears to have had two brothers:

George and Henry - christened 28 March 1641 Shepherdswell (I don't know if they were twins).

I'm going to see if I can find some info on these in Wills and Marriage Licences in case they hold any more info.

I wonder if Thomas Spaine was a relative of either John or Susan?

I also now think that the Henry Chambers who was christened in Whitfied in 1678 must be part of this family as I can't see any other possible parents for him.

I now think that the John Chambers who married Ann Simonson can't be part of my family line as it looks like my John Chambers was from a different area. It just goes to show how awkward things get when there are lots of people marrying around the same time, all called "John"

Anyhow my next task is to see if I can find anything else of the Brownings or on Mary Luknil which might provide clues. I also want to try to trace Susan Bourne who married John Chambers (chr 1669) in 1690. Their marriage appears online twice, once with her name as Bourne and once as Bourke. I am unsure which is the correct spelling though.

Matt

[..claire..]

Hi

When you mention the double baptism in 1641 of the Browning brothers did you mean Henry & George ? You have George and George.

My transcription says twins.

Susan BOURNE or BOURKE - I can't see any baptism with either surname, nearest I can find are these

Susan Birch bapt. 2 Jun 1672 Whitfield dau. of John and Susan

and another in Fordwich which is quite a distance from the Whitfield area

Susan Burch bapt. 28 Dec 1667 Fordwich dau of Witt ? and Elizabeth.

Have had no luck at all with the Luknil surname

Claire

[MattD30]

Hi

When you mention the double baptism in 1641 of the Browning brothers did you mean Henry & George ? You have George and George.

My transcription says twins.

Susan BOURNE or BOURKE - I can't see any baptism with either surname, nearest I can find are these

Susan Birch bapt. 2 Jun 1672 Whitfield dau. of John and Susan

and another in Fordwich which is quite a distance from the Whitfield area

Susan Burch bapt. 28 Dec 1667 Fordwich dau of Witt ? and Elizabeth.

Have had no luck at all with the Luknil surname

Claire

Hi Claire

Yes that was a typo on my part, I did mean Henry and George. Like you I've found Susan's name recorded as both Bourne and Bourke and I suspect this may be a transcription errors.

I hadn't considered Birch as a variation though and so I'll look into that one. The Susan Burch christened in Fordwich is probably the daughter of William (shortened to Will).

It's worth remembering that John and Susan were married in Egerton which isn't near Whitfield, or Coldred (I don't know how far it is from Fordwich). I wonder if Susan might have come from that parish or near there.

Matt
Matt

[..claire..]

Hi Matt

Yes Egerton is a fair way from Whitfield & Fordwich.

There are two earlier ones, but these would make her quite a bit older

Susan BARKES bapt. 16 Sept. 1751 at Canterbury, St Mary Breadman, Kent,  dau. of Miller Barkes

Susan BARKES bapt.  15 Apr 1655 Sandwich , St Peter dau of Raman.

Claire

[MattD30]

Hi Matt

Yes Egerton is a fair way from Whitfield & Fordwich.

There are two earlier ones, but these would make her quite a bit older

Susan BARKES bapt. 16 Sept. 1751 at Canterbury, St Mary Breadman, Kent,  dau. of Miller Barkes

Susan BARKES bapt.  15 Apr 1655 Sandwich , St Peter dau of Raman.

Claire

Hello again!

I think I may have cracked the puzzle. I've just checked to see if the Susan who was christened in Whitfield had any siblings. This is what I found

William [also down online as just Will] - christened  6 October 1673 Whitefield
Mary - christened 12 January 1676 Whitfield
Thomas - christened 26 October 1678 Whitfield

I was still unsure as the name Birch/Burch didn't seem similar to Bourne/Bourke in any way. However I then check for the marriage of the parents [John and Susan] and I think I've found the answer.

John Birch married Susan Spame in Wootton on 4 August 1664 [according to Familysearch]. The name "Spame" sounded familiar to me and after checking my notes I found a clue.

John's parent's John Chambers and Susan Browning were married by Licence in 1666, and the bondsman was one "Thomas Spaine of Whitfield" - could the names Spaine and Spame be connected?

As John Chambers and Susan Browning were married by Licence I wondered if Susan Birch's parent's had also been married by Licence. Here's the answer

"John Birch, of Coldred, husbandman, 27, bachelor, whose parents consent, and Susan SPAINE, of "Wolton", virgin, 18, whose father, Bartholomew Spaine, [of] same parish, husbandman, consents. At "Wolton" 15 July 1664"

"Wolton" is probably the same place as "Wootton" which borders Sibertswold (where the Brownings came from) and is also not far from Colded and Whitfield (which border each other).

So it looks like Bourn/Bourke probably Birch badly transcribed, and the first Susan you mentioned is probably the one I'm after. Spame is clearly a bad transcription of Spain/Spaine. I'm going to see if there are any Wills for any of the Birches or Spaines as well.

The pieces do seem to be coming together.....

Matt

[..claire..]

That's fantastic research 

Glad it's coming together.

Found some variants of Luknil, but not in Kent, but quite near in London.

 - Luckenill, Luckenhill or Luckenbill. But nothing in Kent.

Claire