Author Topic: 3 Daughters all of whom have ilegitimate children - Coincedence?  (Read 2515 times)

Offline Neil_A

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3 Daughters all of whom have ilegitimate children - Coincedence?
« on: Sunday 29 October 17 07:31 GMT (UK) »
Hi all

I'm doing some research into an 1850's North Wales Farmer family that could be part of my own roots.
Reviewing the census and looking through the pages of the local Baptism records the 3 eldest daughters all appear to produce illegitimate children - between them all 9 in total (and still counting).

A few children are listed through the decade and then all the daughters Margaret, Elizabeth and Jane bring to the church 5 of their latest for a baptism (20th April 1855). Its quite a strange page to stumble across, and I haven't seen anything like this before.

So anyone seen something similar before?
Any theories as to why? (there is one horrible one that I'm hoping isn't the case....)

I've seen one or two illegitimate children to one mother but not something that appears to be a regular occurrence in one family!

Neil

Illegitimate Child count (so far!):

Jane Williams (b. 1826) - William Lloyd, Robert, Anne, Jane
Margaret Williams (b. 1827) - Mary, Grace, Elizabeth
Elizabeth Williams (b. 1830) - Peter, Elias





Offline mowsehowse

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Re: 3 Daughters all of whom have ilegitimate children - Coincedence?
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 29 October 17 09:02 GMT (UK) »
Mmmm..... interesting question.... and the farmer/father is not named Elias?

You might check out the birth months, could well be the fruits of "harvest home" or sheep shearing celebrations perhaps?

Often, in the case of illegitimacy a boy child would be named for his father: thus Peter Farraday Jones might be the child of Peter Farraday. (I have no idea why I thought up that name!! :P)
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Offline stevemiller

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Re: 3 Daughters all of whom have ilegitimate children - Coincedence?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 29 October 17 09:30 GMT (UK) »
My 2xgreat grandmother, Hannah Maria Coxhead, had 5 illegitimate children in and around Newbury BRK, between 1858 and 1872. 

I thought that was pretty amazing.

She married in Dec 1872 and had three other children.

 

 
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Offline lisalucie

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Re: 3 Daughters all of whom have ilegitimate children - Coincedence?
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 29 October 17 09:48 GMT (UK) »
I've read somewhere that illegitimacy didn't matter so much to the poorer classes - in Victorian times it was only really important when there was property to inherite and heirs needed. It was later on in the 20th century that's the "stigma" arouse in the working classes.
In my tree the one family (mining stock in the Black Country) Nearly every Family in that small area had at least one child born before marriage. If I look at the one line who would have been around the same time as yours:
Alice - 2 kids before marrying
Nancy - 2 kids
Samuel - 4 kids. This was the 1850s/1860s and the following generation also followed suit .

Lisa
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Offline Muffin41

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Re: 3 Daughters all of whom have ilegitimate children - Coincedence?
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 29 October 17 10:31 GMT (UK) »
I have found that one ancestor had a daughter; the father being summoned and then paid 1s 6d every week for the child. (1849)
She then had six more illegitimate children 3 boys and 3 girls. Two boys and a girl died within 3 years of being born. (1850īs)
Last and not lest she had another daughter and married the father (?) when he was 73 years old shortly before he died. (1862)  ::)
Eight children in all and five lived until they were over 60 years old.
Nothing surprises me any more when researching my ancestors. ;D

Muffin41
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Online BumbleB

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Re: 3 Daughters all of whom have ilegitimate children - Coincedence?
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 29 October 17 10:46 GMT (UK) »
I have an instance of 4 children being born to a single mother - 1819-1830.  She finally married in 1831 and died in 1834 having produced two more children.  Her husband, in his will dated 1845, acknowledges all 6 children as being his, and also makes provision for the children's sister who has raised them since 1834. 

My theory is that the marriage could not take place earlier as the husband was obliged to care for his mother.  Mother was buried 31 March 1831, and the marriage took place, by Licence, on 23 April 1831.
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Offline mijath

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Re: 3 Daughters all of whom have ilegitimate children - Coincedence?
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 29 October 17 11:11 GMT (UK) »
I've encountered a similar thing - multiple daughters having illegitimate children in isolated locations.

Of course there could be a sinister reason behind it, but I think that's much less likely than sisters simply being similar in character. I suppose it's always worth searching newspapers etc for mentions of any male relatives living with them, for any articles which might shed light on their character.
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Offline Jill Eaton

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Re: 3 Daughters all of whom have ilegitimate children - Coincedence?
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 29 October 17 11:21 GMT (UK) »
I have two illegitimate daughters born 11 months apart in the same London workhouse. Both have the same surname and apparently different mothers.

I don't know whether the two mothers are related in any way as I can't find them on the census.
They may be sisters. They may the same woman using a different first name.

Victorian "morality" is something of a sham, perhaps an ideal of how people should live. But judging by the level of illegitimacy in my family it bears little resemblance to the real world - at least for the poor.
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Offline chris_49

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Re: 3 Daughters all of whom have ilegitimate children - Coincedence?
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 29 October 17 12:13 GMT (UK) »
My great great grandmother Ann Davies apparently had 6 illegitimate children in Wallasey and her sister Phoebe had another two - one of whom had an illegitimate son of her own. I say "apparently" because despite the records all evidence points to Ann's last son - my great grandfather William Davies - was most likely the son of her eldest daughter, who brought him up along with her legitimate family.

If this is true that would make four generations of illegitimacy because my grandmother was born just before William's marriage to Annie Fellowes (herself seemingly illegitimate as no marriage found for her parents) though they registered her afterwards as a cover-up.
Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs <br />Hancox - Warks<br />Green - Warks<br />Draper - Warks<br />Lynes - Warks<br />Hudson - Warks<br />Morris - Denbs Mont Salop <br />Davies - Cheshire, North Wales<br />Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire<br />Owens - Cheshire/North Wales<br />Hicks - Cornwall<br />Lloyd and Jones (Mont)<br />Rhys/Rees (Mont)