Author Topic: John William Thomas death in Liverpool (bet 1871 and 1881)  (Read 1121 times)

Offline William (Bill) Zebedee

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John William Thomas death in Liverpool (bet 1871 and 1881)
« on: Friday 17 November 17 20:36 GMT (UK) »
Good day.  I am helping my father-in-law with his family tree and have a brick wall that I am hoping someone might be able to help me with regard his Great Grandfather, John William Thomas.  Here's what I know

Born circa 1938 (I believe in Liverpool--though family stories say he may have been the Thomas who came from Wales).
Married Margaret Johanna Godwin (d of Arthur Godwin and Agnes McKenzie Reid) November 15 1866 in Edge Hill, Liverpool, Enlgand

Children
John Arthur Godwin--born Jul 27 1869 in Liverpool, died 1912
Helena--born 1871 in Liverpool (her name is questionable as it appears to be Alline in the 1871 census and Helena in the 1891 census), unknown death
Francis Patrick--born 1874 in Liverpool, d Mar 7 1948 in Accrington
Richard--unknown birth and death

John William, 1871 census shows age of 28, but believe this to be incorrect as the 1861 census shows age of 23.  Both census show his birth place as Liverpool

John William is not listed in 1881 census, therefore death between April 2, 1871 and April 3, 1881

John William was Brass Moulder (deceased) on Francis Patrick's marriage certificate.

Lived on 50 Prussia Street in 1861, according to Poll Book and Gore Directory of Liverpool 1853 (which lists him as a tinman and braizer).

Now, here is where I need the assist:

1) Father-in-law says that John William was owner of a factory (from the Gore Directory, it would make sense he was a Brass or Metal factory owner).  Is there any history about this, anywhere?

2) The big one is his death.  Father-in-law says that John William committed suicide, but cause of death was covered up because he was a "well off factory owner".  I have come across a few John Thomas in the Death Registry, but can't find a clear one for this one.

What I am hoping, s that someone may have already done the research and can share with me,.

Thanks

Bill

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Offline isobelw

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Re: John William Thomas death in Liverpool (bet 1871 and 1881)
« Reply #1 on: Friday 17 November 17 21:49 GMT (UK) »
Are you sure William married Margaret Johanna Godwin. There is a marriage in 1868 in Liverpool between Margaret Johanna Godwin age 26 (daughter of Arthur Godwin) and Josiah Williams.
Isobel
Clotworthy, McMahon, Saunderson, Culley (Ireland & Scotland)
Weatherall, Greer (Ireland & Scotland)
Hamilton, Johnston, Dawson, Rennie, Wright (Clackmannanshire)

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Offline Milliepede

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Re: John William Thomas death in Liverpool (bet 1871 and 1881)
« Reply #2 on: Friday 17 November 17 21:59 GMT (UK) »
Quote
Married Margaret Johanna Godwin (d of Arthur Godwin and Agnes McKenzie Reid) November 15 1866 in Edge Hill, Liverpool, Enlgand

The marriage registration just gives Margaret Godwin (no middle name) and John W Thomas.

Have you got the actual marriage certificate?
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire

Offline Milliepede

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Re: John William Thomas death in Liverpool (bet 1871 and 1881)
« Reply #3 on: Friday 17 November 17 22:09 GMT (UK) »
Quote
John William, 1871 census shows age of 28, but believe this to be incorrect as the 1861 census shows age of 23.  Both census show his birth place as Liverpool

Bit of a mix up I think because Margaret Thomas (Godwin) in 1871 is with her mother
and son John A G

Margaret is down as wife of master mariner in China I think it says so a different family if you have your John William in this country in 1871 - is he with wife and 2 little children?
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire

Offline isobelw

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Re: John William Thomas death in Liverpool (bet 1871 and 1881)
« Reply #4 on: Friday 17 November 17 22:18 GMT (UK) »
I agree with Milliepede. Lots of things don't add up. There is a possible death for John William Thomas in March quarter 1873 age 30 ( which would tie in with 1871 census age).
Isobel
Clotworthy, McMahon, Saunderson, Culley (Ireland & Scotland)
Weatherall, Greer (Ireland & Scotland)
Hamilton, Johnston, Dawson, Rennie, Wright (Clackmannanshire)

Offline Milliepede

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Re: John William Thomas death in Liverpool (bet 1871 and 1881)
« Reply #5 on: Friday 17 November 17 22:20 GMT (UK) »
I can't find birth registrations for any of those children apart from the first one. 

Is Margaret down as a widow in 1881 with the children?
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire

Offline Milliepede

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Re: John William Thomas death in Liverpool (bet 1871 and 1881)
« Reply #6 on: Friday 17 November 17 22:25 GMT (UK) »
Quote
Richard--unknown birth and death

Where does he appear? 

Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire

Offline Milliepede

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Re: John William Thomas death in Liverpool (bet 1871 and 1881)
« Reply #7 on: Friday 17 November 17 22:37 GMT (UK) »
There is a family tree with John William - Helena - Frank Patrick - being the children of

John Thomas death 1877 and Margaret Carson marriage 1865

Will stop there for tonight.  If we could confirm if the children are correct we can work back from those as either the parents are wrong or the children are. 

Hopefully we can marry up the right family eventually!
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire

Offline lancsann

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Re: John William Thomas death in Liverpool (bet 1871 and 1881)
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 18 November 17 15:57 GMT (UK) »
there is a baptism of a Francis Patrick Thomas in an RC church in Liverpool, born May 1874. Son of John and Margaret nee McQuaid