Author Topic: "Dutch Alley", Nottingham, Robin Hood Terrace, And Sophia Starr.  (Read 4272 times)

Offline RobinRedBreast

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"Dutch Alley", Nottingham, Robin Hood Terrace, And Sophia Starr.
« on: Thursday 30 November 17 11:38 GMT (UK) »
Hello There,

Does anyone please know where exactly this street was at all? I know that it was in the parish of St. Mary's Nottingham. But I've been trying to find the exact location on an old map, but not been successful.

What I am trying to do is find a link between this family with the surname of Starr, who were living at Dutch Alley, in the 1851 Census:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG6N-RXH
And trying to link them to my 3x Great Grandma:
Sophia Starr married Henry Ringrose at St. Mary's Church, Nottingham, on the 9th of April 1860.
Strangely on the certificate, for "Fathers Name and Surname" were written the words: "Sarah Starr" the occupation for this "parent" was put down as: "Chevenier" (whatever that was/is).
The residence of Sophia at the time of marriage was put down as: "Robin Hood Terrace." I believe that this is not very far at all from St. Mary's church. Does anyone please have access to a Nottingham directory/ private residents directory from or around that year to see if there were any other people with the surname of "Starr" on that street? I would be very grateful. Thank you.
The witnesses at the wedding were Joseph Salsbury, and Eliza Shuttleworth.
I think that some of the children with the surname of Starr, that I linked to in the 1851 census, also married at St. Mary's Church Nottingham. Starr, I think is also not a very common surname, and the location to Robin Hood Terrace I think is very close. That is why I believe there may be some kind of link between those Starr's and my Sophia Starr.

Now the main problem is, that there appears to be no baptism or birth registration for Sophia Starr, for the year in which she was supposed to have been born. According to census returns, she was born in 1840/41 in Derbyshire. Henry and Sophia lived all of their married lives in Radford. The transcription on family search from 1860 states that she was born in Derby, in 1840. The transcription from 1871 also states Derby:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBXH-4QM
I do not know what the original census image states for her place of birth. It is quite hard to read. I think that one states: "Derby (or could be Denby) Derbyshire." And another states something like: "Darley Dale, Derbyshire."
Sophia died in Radford, on the 19th of June 1886. Her age was put down as 46.

About 35 years ago, before the age of the internet, somebody did some research into the Ringrose family on a type writer. For Sophia Starr, they had written:
"Born and baptised at Denby, Derbyshire. Probably born Sophia Brown, the daughter of William Brown, and moved to Nottingham, to live with her older sister, and took her married name "Starr". But this is uncertain as yet."

I cannot find a Sophia brown being born to a William Brown in Denby. But I did find a Sophia Brown being born to an Abraham Brown in Denby. But this Sophia was in Denby in the 1861 Census. I cannot think also why somebody may take the married name of their older sister either.  ::)

I realise that this enquiry is rather long winded. But any information at all regarding the above, would be gratefully accepted.

Thank you very much.  :) ;)

Offline Annie65115

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Re: "Dutch Alley", Nottingham, Robin Hood Terrace, And Sophia Starr.
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 30 November 17 14:27 GMT (UK) »
According to this:


http://www.rootschat.com/links/01l4a/

Dutch Alley was on Red Lion Street, which doesn't seem to exist any more but might be easier to find on old maps.

Photos of Red Lion St, and a description of where it was:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01l4b/
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Anywhere and everywhere, also Holiland Holliland Hollyland)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Westmorland, Cheshire/Leicester)

Offline Annie65115

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Re: "Dutch Alley", Nottingham, Robin Hood Terrace, And Sophia Starr.
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 30 November 17 14:47 GMT (UK) »
Looking at the census returns, Sophia's pob in 1861 and 71 was given as Derby. It has been transcribed as "Derly" in Derbyshire in 1881, but I think actually it just says Derby again, with the loop of the G in the line above interfering with it.

So I think that Derby town is the likeliest place. There's no mention of Darley Dale and I'm not aware of a place called Denby in Derbyshire.
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Anywhere and everywhere, also Holiland Holliland Hollyland)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Westmorland, Cheshire/Leicester)

Offline purlin

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Re: "Dutch Alley", Nottingham, Robin Hood Terrace, And Sophia Starr.
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 30 November 17 16:11 GMT (UK) »
There is a Denby as in Denby Pottery not sure if its in Derbyshire.   May have been in Derbyshire previously but with boundary changes etc it could now be in Nottinghamshire!
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Offline Rattus

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Re: "Dutch Alley", Nottingham, Robin Hood Terrace, And Sophia Starr.
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 30 November 17 17:23 GMT (UK) »
Browsing further along this section of the 1851 census, the enumerator comments that Red Lion Street is an alternative name for Narrow Marsh. Later Red Lion Street became its official name.

The 'sister street' of Narrow Marsh was Broad Marsh, the name of which survives today as the name of one of the city's two shopping centres. Red Lion Street eventually became Cliff Road.

In this section of the census, the preceding 'street' is Martin's Yard and before that Knob Yard. In the other direction, the next street is Foundry Yard. Some information on Knob/Foundry here:

http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/articles/tts/tts1926/itinerary1926p4.htm

I haven't yet found a map that shows any of these locations. The best one (of Narrow Marsh) so far is here:

https://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/firemaps/england/eastmidlands/mapsu145ubu20uf009r.html
BARTRAM - Nottingham, Derby, originally Beds (Stagsden)
PERFETT - St Pancras & Marylebone, Rugby, Nottingham
RADFORD - Nottinghamshire, also back & forth to Bury
RUDD - Durham, Margate, Bermondsey, Newcastle, Nottingham

Offline RobinRedBreast

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Re: "Dutch Alley", Nottingham, Robin Hood Terrace, And Sophia Starr.
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 30 November 17 18:53 GMT (UK) »
According to this:


http://www.rootschat.com/links/01l4a/

Dutch Alley was on Red Lion Street, which doesn't seem to exist any more but might be easier to find on old maps.

Photos of Red Lion St, and a description of where it was:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01l4b/
Thank you very much.  :)

Offline RobinRedBreast

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Re: "Dutch Alley", Nottingham, Robin Hood Terrace, And Sophia Starr.
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 30 November 17 18:54 GMT (UK) »
Browsing further along this section of the 1851 census, the enumerator comments that Red Lion Street is an alternative name for Narrow Marsh. Later Red Lion Street became its official name.

The 'sister street' of Narrow Marsh was Broad Marsh, the name of which survives today as the name of one of the city's two shopping centres. Red Lion Street eventually became Cliff Road.

In this section of the census, the preceding 'street' is Martin's Yard and before that Knob Yard. In the other direction, the next street is Foundry Yard. Some information on Knob/Foundry here:

http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/articles/tts/tts1926/itinerary1926p4.htm

I haven't yet found a map that shows any of these locations. The best one (of Narrow Marsh) so far is here:

https://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/firemaps/england/eastmidlands/mapsu145ubu20uf009r.html

Thank you. Cheers. So Narrow Marsh was close to where St. Mary's church is, where Sophia got married.  :) ;)

Offline RobinRedBreast

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Re: "Dutch Alley", Nottingham, Robin Hood Terrace, And Sophia Starr.
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 30 November 17 19:05 GMT (UK) »
Looking at the census returns, Sophia's pob in 1861 and 71 was given as Derby. It has been transcribed as "Derly" in Derbyshire in 1881, but I think actually it just says Derby again, with the loop of the G in the line above interfering with it.

So I think that Derby town is the likeliest place. There's no mention of Darley Dale and I'm not aware of a place called Denby in Derbyshire.

Thank you very much.
Yes, curiosity got the better of me today and I checked the original census returns on FindMyPast at the Library. They do also seem to me to give Sophia's place of birth as Derby.
When Sophia got married on April 9th 1860, at St. Mary's Church, it did not give her age. It just stated: "Full Age." Her death certificate from June 1886, states her age as 46. So does her burial record dated June the 23rd. The Census from 1861 give her birth year as 1840, and also I think so does another one. One of them I think gives her year of birth as 1841.
So on balance it is most likely that she was born 1840 in Derby.  :) ;)

Offline chempat

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Re: "Dutch Alley", Nottingham, Robin Hood Terrace, And Sophia Starr.
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 09 December 17 08:28 GMT (UK) »
Quote:
'Strangely on the certificate, for "Fathers Name and Surname" were written the words: "Sarah Starr" the occupation for this "parent" was put down as: "Chevenier" (whatever that was/is).'

Could you scan in part of the certificate so we can have a guess as to the word Chevenier (include some of the other words for comparison)?