Author Topic: Thomas George Thorburn (b. 1876 Neath) to New York?  (Read 5812 times)

Offline roycymru

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Re: Thomas George Thorburn (b. 1876 Neath) to New York?
« Reply #36 on: Saturday 27 October 18 21:59 BST (UK) »
Wow! Thanks for all this fantastic information. I need to time to read and digest it all. My connection is via George Rees Thorburn. His second wife Mary Bowen was my 2nd great grandmother. Emily/Emiah/Emy (depending on which census you look at) was her sister. George and Emily married in the Llanelly district in 1873, but then quickly moved to Glyn Neath. If you are interested in any more information on the Bowens just let me know.

Offline neddwr

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Re: Thomas George Thorburn (b. 1876 Neath) to New York?
« Reply #37 on: Tuesday 30 October 18 20:28 GMT (UK) »
I have been studying the various replies to your initial query, along with my own information, and I have built up the history as I see it so far.    George Rees Thorburn was born in Haverford West in 1850, being the son of Thomas Thorburn , Excise Officer (orinally from Ashkirk).
He married Emily Bowen , (born ?)  (a dressmaker by profession) in 1873.  There were 5 children altogether.  The first was called Sarah Jane,  born 1866 in Carmarthen. (This was pre- the marriage if my dates are correct, when George Rees was about 16  - a youthful fling perhaps?)
The other children were  Thomas George Thorburn b  1875/6  :    William Rees Thorburn  b 1877:    Mary Ann Thorburn  b 1880: David Thorburn b 1883.
George Rees’ wife Emily died in 1889.  He then married  the widow, Mary Davies (nee Bowen) who was Emily’s sister.  Mary already had three children, Esther/Hetty, b 1873 :Maria  b 1881   and Elizabeth/Eliza  b 1883;
There is reference to Thomas George returning to New York accompanied by his daughter Cassie             (b 1895) in 1914. One presumes that she was the daughter of Thomas George and Mary (i.e. of the second marriage) ?   (My mother remembered him coming back to Glynneath for a visit  at some time.)
Thomas George emigrated to Scranton sometime in 1897.  In the meantime, an unmarried  lady called Mary Ann George arrived also in Scranton to stay with the Williams family (her aunt and uncle).
Thomas George and Mary Ann George were married in 1899.   They lived in 13th Ave. Scranton.  They had a daughter Hilda in 1900, but she died a year later.  They had a further daughter Eleanor (b 1910/11, who eventually lived in Lackawanna , and died 1988.)
Thomas George worked as foreman in the mines for The Glen Alden Coal Co. He was badly burned in an explosion in the mine, and died in 1929.
It seems as though Thomas George had served briefly in the US armed  forces  from May 1898 to March 1899, during something called the Spanish American War (whatever that might have been). In 1934, his widow Mary Ann applied to The Spanish American War compensation fund and was granted $100.   Mary Ann Thorburn herself died in 1964, she still lived at 13th Avenue Scranton.
NOTES.   (1)   I suspect that there may have been another related Thorburn family living at nearby Lackawanna. Could these possibly have been descendants of the relatives of Thomas Thorburn of Ashkirk, the Excise Officer. He said that his father (another Thomas) had died at sea on the way home from visiting relatives in America.   Just a thought – no proof!
(2)  The business of George Rees marrying his deceased wife’s sister worries me somewhat. Marriage of this sort had been allowed in olden times, but in 1835 it was made illegal by the British Parliament. It remained a controversial topic until a subsequent act in 1907 made it legal again.  Could it be that,  since Mary Ann Davies had another (married) name by then,  the fact that she was Emily’s sister was somehow disguised and glossed over?     
Does this suggested history  sound plausible to you ? 

Offline roycymru

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Re: Thomas George Thorburn (b. 1876 Neath) to New York?
« Reply #38 on: Tuesday 30 October 18 21:25 GMT (UK) »
Thank you very much for collating all the information. I’ll go through it this week, fill in any blanks I can and get back to you.

Kind regards

Roy

Offline roycymru

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Re: Thomas George Thorburn (b. 1876 Neath) to New York?
« Reply #39 on: Wednesday 31 October 18 22:30 GMT (UK) »
Amended version part 1

George Rees Thorburn was born in Haverford West in 1850, being the son of Thomas Thorburn, Excise Officer (orinally from Ashkirk).

He married Emy Bowen (a dressmaker by profession) in 1873.  Emy Bowen was born 10 Jan 1845, Cillay Fach, Llanddarog, daughter of Thomas Bowen (1803-1857) and Rachel Lodwick/Lott (1806-1894). There is some confusion over Rachel’s surname. In parish records the only marriage that fits is Thomas Bowen to Rachel Lodwick 28Jun1831, Llanddarog, but on the birth certificates for her children her surname is listed as Lott. Emy was 1 of 7 children, Anne (1833), Rachel (1834), David (1837), John (1840), Joanna (1841), Emy (1845) and Mary (1849). Emy’s name varies according to censuses/records to Emily/Emiah/Emy/Emma.

George Rees Thorburn married Emy Bowen, Mar Qtr 1873 in Llanelly district, Llanelly 11a 863 (Marriage entry index has her name as Emma! Bowen). I haven’t obtained the marriage certificate but something it would be useful to do at some stage.  There were 5 children altogether.  The first was called Sarah Jane, born 1866 in “Carmarthenshire”, Wales. (This was pre- the marriage if my dates are correct, when George Rees was about 16  - a youthful fling perhaps?). As you suggest this was probably a youthful fling and I have been unable to find an appropriate birth match in BMD records.

The other children were Thomas George Thorburn (b  11 Apr 1875 according to American WW1 records). He was born in Glyn Neath according to UK census records (THORBURN, THOMAS  GEORGE  (BOWEN) GRO Reference: 1875  J Quarter in NEATH  Volume 11A  Page 645).  William Rees Thorburn  b 1877 (THORBURN, WILLIAM  REES, (BOWEN) GRO Reference: 1877  J Quarter in NEATH  Volume 11A  Page 626:    Mary Ann Thorburn  b 1880 (THORBURN, MARY  ANN (BOWEN) GRO Reference: 1880  M Quarter in NEATH  Volume 11A  Page 560). David Thorburn b 1882 (THORBURN, DAVID (BOWEN), GRO Reference: 1882  S Quarter in NEATH  Volume 11A  Page 613). David’s actual DOB was 20 Aug 1882 (from 1939 register, assuming I have found the right David).
There was also a Thomas Thorburn who presumably died young: THORBURN, THOMAS (BOWEN) GRO Reference: 1873  J Quarter in NEATH  Volume 11A  Page 577.

George Rees’ wife Emily died in 8 Nov 1889.  He then married the widow, Mary Davies (nee Bowen) who was Emily’s sister.  Mary already had 8 children in total with her first husband Joseph Davies, three of which moved with her to Glyn Neath: Esther/Hetty, b 18 May 1873 in Llannon :Maria  b 27 April 1881 and Elizabeth/Eliza  b 13 February 1883 in Pontyberem;
George (died 08 Jun 1895), Emily (listed as Emily on Gravestone) and Mary (died 19 Aug 1891) are buried together in Bethel Chapel Glyn Neath (I have a copy of the gravestone picture)




Offline roycymru

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Re: Thomas George Thorburn (b. 1876 Neath) to New York?
« Reply #40 on: Wednesday 31 October 18 22:32 GMT (UK) »
Amended version part 2

There are various reference to Thomas George Thorburn arriving Ellis Island, one in 1897, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G1DC-9RQW?i=347&cc=1368704 and one in 1902 (but listed as George Thomas) https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9T4-G3MP-H?i=718&cc=1368704. There is also reference to Thomas George returning to New York accompanied by his daughter Cassie  (age 19, b 1895) in 1914 (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9TF-WJNB?i=892&cc=1368704).
One presumes that she was the daughter of Thomas George and Mary (i.e. of the second marriage)?   (My mother remembered him coming back to Glyn Neath for a visit at some time.). Are you mixing up George Rees Thorburn and Thomas George Thorburn? No records indicating Thomas George marrying twice, however, if Cassie J (born 1895) is his daughter then he must have. Though, I can find no record of Thomas George Thorburn marrying in the UK, or the registration of birth of Cassie J Thornurn in UK. Maybe she was illegitimate

Thomas George Thorburn born April 11 1875 (Reference https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-L1JY-F9H?i=5272&cc=1968530), address 310 13th Avenue Scranton City Pens, according to the registration card.
Natralised citizen
working Dodge mine
Nearest relative Mary Thorburn same address
Tall, medium build ,brown hair and eyes.

It looks like Thomas George emigrated to Scranton sometime in 1897.  In the meantime, an unmarried lady called Mary Ann George arrived also in Scranton to stay with the Williams family (her aunt and uncle).

Thomas George and Mary Ann George were married in 1899 (Thursday, November 23, 1899 (Scranton Tribune) (article from Genealogy Bank). Thomas Thorburn and Miss Mary A George of Bellevue will be united in marriage at 8 o'clock this morning at the home of Thomas Williams on South Main avenue. Rev. D. D. Hopkins).   They lived in 13th Ave. Scranton.  They had a daughter Hilda in 1900, but she died a year later.  They had a further daughter Eleanor (b 1910/11, who eventually lived in Lackawanna , and died 1988.)

Thomas George worked as foreman in the mines for The Glen Alden Coal Co. He was badly burned in an explosion in the mine, and died in 1929 (Death certificate for Thomas shows parents - George Thorburn and Mother Emily Bowen. Informant Mrs Thomas Thorburn - 319 13 th Avenue - cause of death toxema from 2nd and 3rd degree burns of hands, arms and face from mine gas explosion).
It seems as though Thomas George had served briefly in the US armed  forces  from May 1898 to March 1899, during something called the Spanish American War (whatever that might have been). In 1934, his widow Mary Ann applied to The Spanish American War compensation fund and was granted $100.   Mary Ann Thorburn herself died in 1964, she still lived at 13th Avenue Scranton.

NOTES.   (1)   I suspect that there may have been another related Thorburn family living at nearby Lackawanna. Could these possibly have been descendants of the relatives of Thomas Thorburn of Ashkirk, the Excise Officer. He said that his father (another Thomas) had died at sea on the way home from visiting relatives in America.   Just a thought – no proof!
(2)  The business of George Rees marrying his deceased wife’s sister worries me somewhat. Marriage of this sort had been allowed in olden times, but in 1835 it was made illegal by the British Parliament. It remained a controversial topic until a subsequent act in 1907 made it legal again. 

Offline roycymru

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Re: Thomas George Thorburn (b. 1876 Neath) to New York?
« Reply #41 on: Wednesday 31 October 18 22:33 GMT (UK) »
Newspaper extracts relating to Thomas George Thorburn

Searching Welsh Newspapers online under Thorburn AND Scranton

Welsh Newspapers online site (in Welsh) shows that Thomas George graduated as Bachelor of Music in 1908 - known as Tom, faithful member of Bethel who joined in all activities, especially singing, left Glynneath in 1897. lost his parents when young and care of the family fell on him. In the US is an eisteddfod adjudicator and leads the singing in the Hyde Park church, Scranton (brief English version mentions he has Kidwelly roots)

There is also a report of him and family returning to Resolven and Pontardawe in for a visit in July 1914

A couple of articles from 1914-18 refer to him as Prof Thomas Thorburn

The Welshman 20 Mar 1908

Mr. T .G. Thorburn, of Scranton, U.S.A., hasse- cured the degree of Mus. Bac. U.S.A. Mr. Thorhum comes of Kidwelly parentage, but before his departure to the states lived 'at Glyn Neath, where he was the tutor to a number of musical students, many of whom have attained considerable distinction. Mr. Thorbutnn has a good many relatives reaiding at Kidwelly now

October 12, 1908

The Scranton Republican from Scranton, Pennsylvania • Page 7

Prof. Jones sang another solo; Mr. Williams gave a recitation; Prof. Thorburn played a selection on the piano and Tom Abrams sang "Mona," Mr. Humphrey and Rev.' Mr. Griffith each followed with addresses during which they paid a tribute to the people of Scranton for the treatment they had received while , here. Prof. Harri E. Jones sang "Rocked In the Cradle of the Deep," as but few can sing that favorite selection, and Mr. Williams favored the assemblage with another recitation. During the evening refreshments were served by Mrs. Davis assisted by Mrs. Edward Roberts and Mrs. Margaret Thomas. The meeting came to a close with Prof. Jones singing "Hen Wlad fy Nhadau" all joining in the chorus. Prof. Thorburn was the accompanist of the evening. Those present were; Mr. Richard Humphrey and Rev. J. W. Griffith, of Buffalo; Mr. and Mrs. Walter Reese, of the North End; Mr. and Mrs. Edward Roberts, Prof. Harri E. Jones,Thomas Abrams, D. J. Williams, Prof. Thomas Thorburn, Mr. and Mrs. W. J.Davies, Mrs. Margaret Thomas. Miss Edith Roberts, Mrs. W. H. Fuller, MiltonDavies, Percy Thomas, Wilford Thomas, Eugene Fuller and Master Everett Davies.

October 19, 1929

The Scranton Republican from Scranton,Pennsylvania • Page 17

In the death of Thomas George Thorburn, Scranton has lost a musician of prominence. Not that he was active in the performance or the promotion of music during his later years, but that he acted in an advisory capacity to many of our leaders and vocalists, Mr. Thorburn has acquired the art of listening, and to form a sane and sound judgment on the performances of others. His opinion and advice was therefore sought, and his analyst; was generally found to be correct. Of a retiring disposition, he found a Joy and solace In composition. A few years ago he interested the writer In some compositions of his own which showed much originality and an unquestioned gift for melody. The: included choruses, vocal solos and hymn - tunes. and only Mr. Thorburns own reticence kept these deserving works from becoming (thenroDertv or the musical puouc??). Some years ago he was the director of music at the First Welsh Baptist church and while there the church choir under his direction presented several cantatas, and on one occasion an abridged version of Mendelssohn oratorio. "Saint Paul. Occasionally he served as an eisteddfod adjudicator, and he had been selected for that position at the North Scranton eisteddfod which will be held Oct. 29. Mr. 'Thornburn was born in Wales, and at an early age received the advanced certificate of the London Tonn Solfa college.He had been a resident of Scranton for thirty - two years.

October 15, 1929

The Scranton Republican from Scranton,Pennsylvania • Page 15

Thomas G. Thorburn. Full military honors were given Thomas G. Thorburn, 319 Thirteenth avenue yesterday afternoon at funeral services held from the late home. A large delegation of the Veterans of Foreign Wars was present and conducted services at the grave in the Washburn Street Cemetery. The Rev. Dr. T. T. Richards, pastor of the First Welsh Baptist Church, and the Rev. Dr. John Mattes, pastor of St. John's Lutheran church officiated. The casket bearers were: David Jamas, Thomas Davis. Chester Thomas Jonn Redmond, W. A. Morgan, William Edwards, and David Williams. To Serve Lunches The Ladies' Aid society, of the First Welsh Baptist church, will entertain at a noonday luncheon tomorrow In the church parlors. Mrs. George Wettling is in charge.

Offline Lillias

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Re: Thomas George Thorburn (b. 1876 Neath) to New York?
« Reply #42 on: Tuesday 04 July 23 11:45 BST (UK) »
Hi regarding the Thorburn brothers that moved to Glynneath, George Rees Thorburn was my husbands Great Grandfather, we have been researching since 2005 and Thomas Thorburn Excise Officer has been on the back burner most of that time, we have his Excise Entry papers and have just ordered Excise entry papers for his first son Gavin James Hamilton b abt 1826 (d1852 Carmarthen)by Joanna Hamilton d 1827 aged 17 Ashkirk, where her father Gavin James Hamilton was the vicar. This information is not entirely relevant but Thomas Thorburn and parents are a mystery. We may have had a breakthrough just by accident we has found a Thomas Thorburn who died in Guyana in The Americas in 1814 aged 30 is this any connection to the letter previously mentioned? 

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Re: Thomas George Thorburn (b. 1876 Neath) to New York?
« Reply #43 on: Tuesday 04 July 23 11:58 BST (UK) »
Hi regarding the Thorburn brothers that moved to Glynneath, George Rees Thorburn was my husbands Great Grandfather, we have been researching since 2005 and Thomas Thorburn Excise Officer has been on the back burner most of that time, we have his Excise Entry papers and have just ordered Excise entry papers for his first son Gavin James Hamilton b abt 1826 (d1852 Carmarthen)by Joanna Hamilton d 1827 aged 17 Ashkirk, where her father Gavin James Hamilton was the vicar. This information is not entirely relevant but Thomas Thorburn and parents are a mysteryWe have come across a Thomas Thorburn d1814 aged 30 in Guyana the Americas is this the father of Thomas Thorburn mentioned in the latter?