Author Topic: Walter S Edwards born Canada/England  (Read 1498 times)

Offline Ebelvi

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Re: Walter S Edwards born Canada/England
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 02 January 19 23:29 GMT (UK) »
Hi everybody.
After going though the posts recently I have to admit I misinterpreted a few posts which lead to mixing up the "Walter Steinhoff" and "Walter Steinhoff Edwards". Mea Culpa.
Thanks for all the input.
(I might have a question related to the Samuel Edwards, but for clarity I'll start a new topic for that one). 

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Offline Ebelvi

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Re: Walter S Edwards born Canada/England
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 09 January 19 12:58 GMT (UK) »
In the Drouin Collection,

Walter S (Steinhoff) son of Samuel Edwards and Mary Nicol
Montréal, Québec (Quebec)
Methodist.... Saint James Born 12th Feb 1861 bap 21 March 1861
Their marriage is in the same collection, same church

19 JL 1852
Samuel Edwards batchelor of NEW YORK
Mary Nicol of Montreal
---------------------------
Hi again,

I still hope to find names of parents of Samuel Edwards, but my research leads nowhere... .

Samuel's second child is John, probably named after Mary Nicol's father John Nicol?  Then maybe Samuel's first child William is named after his father? 
His mother's name would definitely help a lot for finding a possible birth certificate...

Am I correct that marriage record (Drouin Collection) of Samuel Edwards x Mary Nicol doesn't mention his parents names, and no Edwards parent act as witness?

Does Samuel's death certificate mention his parent's names?
Ontario death certificates seem to be accessible on Family*Srch and often contain lots of information such as parents of deceased. But for Quebec there seems to be only indexes or "Find*Grave" burials showing only name and date of deceased... Does Drouin Collection have death certificate of Samuel Edwards? I have no acces to Drouin collection...

Samuel must have died (probably in Quebec?) after Quebec census of 1891.
--------------------------
1871 – Samuel 40 yrs - Methodist.
http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1871/jpg/4395440_00122.jpg
1881 – 50 yrs
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e327/e008162424.jpg
1891 – 55 yrs
http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1891&op=img&id=30953_148211-00213

Samuel year of birth must be about 1830-1835, or even 1825-1840 ? 
---------------------------

Thanks in advance for help!

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Offline polarbear

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Re: Walter S Edwards born Canada/England
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 09 January 19 16:28 GMT (UK) »
First, the marriage...

There are no parents listed. Witnesses are Amos (I think) Dance and Isabella Nichol.

And...

Samuel appears to be in the Montreal Directory at least through 1901. I think this might be him in the 1901 census with Mary and Bella. This census gives birthdates. Lines 37-39.

http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census/ViewFrame.jsp?id=91421&highlight=37

PB

Added: if Samuel died in Quebec you will only get a parish record related to his burial. Civil registration of BMDs only began in Quebec in 1994 (yes!). Burial records do not normally give the parents of married adults but do usually have witnesses who may be family members.
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Offline Ebelvi

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Re: Walter S Edwards born Canada/England
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 09 January 19 23:03 GMT (UK) »
Looks awesome. Never expected to see full birth dates on a census...

I admit it would be difficult not to agree it's the correct family.  But ...

1/ Bella.
If Bella (Isabella) is born 1871, then in the 1871 census she is a baby, or max 1 year old.
I don't understand how she then can be recorded as 7 year old in the 1871 census.
The 7 seems to be correct though, because it turns into 17 on 1881 census. But here same remark;  17 seems a lot for a girl that's still a 10 year old child if she's born in 1871...
The 1881 census looks a bit better, but still...

Do we have to be that flexible?
Or do we need confirmation of her birth date by finding birth certificate (probably Drouin Collection)?

2/ Mary.
No comments.
She states she's from England but should be Scotland. Common error I suppose.

3/ Samuel.
1929 quite acceptable for his age on 1871 and 1881 census.

---------------------------
Just for nitpicking:
If the full dates of birth are correct, then the ages on april 1901 should be:
Samuel 69 instead of 71 (turns 70 in sept 1901)
Mary O.K. (The census guy might actually have knocked on the door on her birthday!)
Bella 29 not yet 30 (turns 30 in nov 1901)
---------------------------

Birth/Baptism record search.
Problem is that baptism date might be very long time after birth date, sometimes even years later. I did a quick search in Family*Srch whether I could at least find a baptism in England for a date close after sept 12, 1829, but I cannot find a good candidate...

That's why names of parents are so crucial.

A few thoughts:

Immigration.
The census 1901 states Samuel and Mary both in 1840 immigrated to Canada.
Would that be from USA to Canada (Samuel came from New York) or from England to North America (USA+Canada)?  Was moving from New York to Canada considered "immigration"?

If Samuel was born in 1829 and Mary in 1833 they both were children when emigrating in 1840 from England. I guess they emigrated with parents? Or is it possible at such a young age they emigrated without their parents?

Census in England.
If Samuel left England in 1840, or before if he first emigrated from England to New York, then There's no hope to find him on first census (1841) in England...

I'll do my best to check parish burial records.





Offline polarbear

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Re: Walter S Edwards born Canada/England
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 10 January 19 15:33 GMT (UK) »
Well now!

I was wondering why Bella might have been in New Jersey and contemplating the fact that Samuel's last appearance in the Montreal Directory was 1903-04 where he is described as a second hand dealer. And no apparent burials for Samuel or Mary in Quebec.

Well....

I believe I might have located Samuel and Mary in Jersey City New Jersey in the 1905 census.
Samuel born England Sep 1929 (matches 1901 census) Retired Parents born England
Mary born Apr 1933 (matches 1901 census) born Scotland (more correct, I believe) Parents born Scotland

Immigration timing seems to be an issue though, as the couple apparently indicate they have been in the US 20 and 40 years respectively.

I can't post a link from the website I found this record on but would expect you could find it on the familysearch website as they seem to have US censuses (didn't look myself, though).

Bella....

Baptism in the Drouin Collection: posted earlier by Jool (reply #10)

Isabella Nichol Edwards
Born 30 Nov 1863 (so date of birth matches the census but not the year)
Baptized 28 Apr 1864
Parents Samuel and Mary Edwards
Both parents signed as witnesses

Census entry could possibly be an error of some sort.

Mary....

With her birthdate you might be able to find her birth in Scotland

https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

This is a pay site but the indexes are free to use. You would have to pay for the record info.

So, much food for thought.

PB

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Offline polarbear

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Re: Walter S Edwards born Canada/England
« Reply #32 on: Thursday 10 January 19 17:59 GMT (UK) »
Eureka!!! I hope this is Samuel!

Death in Kennett Sq Chester County Pennsylvania

Samuel Edwards
Died 02 Mar 1911
Born 16 Sep 1829 England
Father William H Edwards b England
Mother Susan Farr b England
Informant Walter Edwards of Kennett Sq

It looks like Samuel and Mary were living in Kennett Sq in the 1910 census

Samuel 80 b England
Mary 77 b Scotland
Married 58 years (so 1852)
7 children born 1 deceased (Bella?)

Again, an issue with immigration dates. Samuel has 1846, Mary 1845.

Walter and Margaret and 2 of their children were also living in Kennett Sq in 1910

Added:

Wow! Looks like the correct Samuel! His will is on line on anc...try. It names his 6 surviving sons. You don't have a location in your profile but if you don't have world sub for ancestry you might check if your local public library subscribes to Ancestry Library Edition. This should give you access. I didn't look to see if familysearch has this record.

PB
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Offline dbree

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Re: Walter S Edwards born Canada/England
« Reply #33 on: Thursday 10 January 19 21:01 GMT (UK) »
Well done PB


Offline polarbear

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Re: Walter S Edwards born Canada/England
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 10 January 19 21:12 GMT (UK) »
Gosh, thanks dbree  :)

PB
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Offline dbree

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Re: Walter S Edwards born Canada/England
« Reply #35 on: Thursday 10 January 19 23:57 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Ontario Deaths, York, Ontario Feb. 7, 1915, address 120 Cooper Ave.
Edwards, Mary, age 83, b. Scotland, widow, father John Nichol, mother unknown.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-D1LS-R4Y?i=89&cc=1307826

Ontario Trust Cemeteries, 4th from the bottom
Edwards, Mary, Prospect Cemetery, nearest relative F. Edwards, 120 Cooper Ave., plot owner
Fredk. E. Edwards
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DR19-N9C?i=17&cc=1627831

DB