Identification of a couple of coats of arms

[goldie61]

I have a ‘quarterings’ of the Fynney family from Staffordshire. It tells the story of the ancestry of that family, and the families they married into. (This has to be the most illustrious family in my ancestry!)
aka Finey, Fines, Fienes, Fineaux etc
The actual ancestry of the Fynney family is documented on many sites.

I have been able to put names to the majority of them, but there are a few that have me stumped.

The most puzzling one is number 8. The single black bend on a silver ground.
This is supposed to be for the Monceaux family of Herstmonceaux, but anything that comes up for them are much more elaborate affairs.
(Sir John de Fienes married Maud Monceaux about 1325. Her father was Sir John Monceaux, and her mother Olympia (nobody seems to know her name). The Monceaux family hailed from Moncheaux, near Neufchatel in Normandy)

Another one is number 5. (This is the first one in the ‘ancestry’ - the top 4 supposedly being for the Fynney families.)
The quarters 1 & 4 on number 5 are the arms of the Counts of Boulogne (3 red torteaux on a gold ground), but I can’t track down the red flag in quarters 2 & 3. any ideas?
(Ingelram de Fiennes married Sibyl de Tingree about 1170. Her father was Pharamus de Tingree, Count of Boulogne. He was nephew to Maude, Queen of England, wife of King Stephen. Her father also related to Godfrey de Boulogne, ‘King of Jerusalem’).

I have another question about numbers 1- 4, but will leave that for another day.
Any help gratefully received.
Thank you.

[KGarrad]

I think your problem here is that some of the quarterings are/maybe European and not English?
These will be trickier to track down, as each country had it's own system.

Prior to the 16th century, there was no regulation on the use of arms in England.
And that leads to it's own problems

[sharonfynney86]

Hi There,

While I may not have any information on the meaning of the coat of arms I do have another image that is the crest that appears in the family book brought with my great grandfather when he came to South Africa.

[goldie61]

Wow, thanks sharon.
That would seem to be the same as the first one on the 'quarterings'.
How exciting to find Fynneys in South Africa!
What book is it in? Is it just about the Fynney family, or a more generalised book?
I've never seen that image no matter how many times I've googled Fynney.
How do you, and your great grandfather, fit into the Fynney family?
I'm presuming you do, as your name here on Rootschat is Sharon Fynney!
And how and when did he go to South Africa? whose son was he?

Sorry for so many questions, but how exciting to find another image of the Fynney crest, and some more relations! 

Im not sure how much you know about the Fynney family, but I have LOADS of information about them.

[sharonfynney86]

Hi Goldie,

I am a Fynney (Sadly the last I know of in SA that comes from the direct line). My direct family is descended from Dr Fielding Best Fynney who came to SA to farm sugar on the Natal coastline. Fielding had 8 children the oldest being Fredrick Bernard Fynney my Great Great Grandfather, Fredrick Bernard had 6 children the oldest being Oswald Henry Joseph Fynney my Great grandfather. Oswald had 2 children with Edith Blamey a girl Eileen who passed away in a fire and my grandfather Fredrick Eric Warren Fynney. Fredrick married my gran Barbara Kate Collet and had a single son my father who is still living. My father had 5 children all girls of which I am the last to be unmarried and retain the Fynney name.

The book we have is ancient!! it is a record of the Fynney family as far as I remember, it is not something we leaf through regularly because of age and the language being in the old English style making it somewhat hard to understand. This came across with our family and included the sale deed to the lands we left.

I hope you have found this interesting:) 

[MaecW]

One possibility for your number 8 : "Argent a bend sable". These were the older arms of Hough of Leighton, in Cheshire - see "http://cheshire-heraldry.org.uk/visitations/CV15.html".

The wikitree site "https://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/FYNNEY" contains references to the Houghs of Leighton, who appear to be related. You may want to investigate this 

Maec

[goldie61]

Hi Sharon
Thanks for replying.
Dr Fielding Best Fynney is well documented. There is a big wall monument - The Fynney Brass -  to him in Cheddleton church. Sadly now very discoloured you can't even see it's brass never mind what it says. Have you seen a picture of it (while it was still readable)?
Is your book written by him? He was an ardent genealogist and  did a lot of work on his family pedigree, some of which you can find in various depositories in England.

This came across with our family and included the sale deed to the lands we left.
Could I ask what place the deeds were for? I'm guessing somewhere in Staffordshire.
Would it be possible to take a photograph of the book you have? Just of the front cover would be great. I should love to see it.
It is so fascinating when these treasures suddenly become unearthed!

Hope to hear back from you. How very exciting! 

[goldie61]

Hi Maec
Thanks for the links.
Certainly something to look into, although I have never come across any reference in all the documentation I've seen about the Fynneys that there was ever an connection with any Cheshire families. Not to say there wasn't though - you never know.

The second link to 'Fynney' on wikitree takes me to a long list of Fynney families - some I can see are mine, others not. There is no reference to the Houghs on that page - do you know which Fynney it referred to?
Many thanks for you interest and help.

[sharonfynney86]

Hi Goldie,

I have not seen the brass at all as far as I can remember although we probably do have a picture or rubbing of it somewhere ( I would need to ask my father ). I do know that my grandmother was lucky enough to go and see it in person but that was well before I was born.

I think the book may have been written by him. It has been a number of years since I have requested my dad pull it out for me to look at (we are a bit precious with it). I do know that it contains our history back to Normandy. There are a number of crests and family details that are a bit over my head. I do have photo copies of some of the pages my dad found most interesting so I will dig them up and hopefully be able to share them with you.

The deeds are in my possession so I will be able to have a look at the exact location a bit later but I know it was in Staffordshire and they mention Leek.

If my recollection is correct I may be able to shine a bit of light on the various coats of arms, as there was a section of the book I think I have a copy of that has many coat of arms on it.

I will happily ask my dad to take a photo of the front of the book and send it to me:)

I find this all very interesting as well:)