Author Topic: Henry Sweetland born 1870 Yarcombe - please can anyone help?  (Read 1336 times)

Offline Annette7

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Re: Henry Sweetland born 1870 Yarcombe - please can anyone help?
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 00:51 GMT (UK) »
Alfred Garrett appears to have married Elizabeth Stacey in Dec.qtr.1881 Sherborne, Dorset

So, when Annie married she names father as 'Alfred' (Christian name of what looks like stepfather) and 'Stacey' which is maiden name of Elizabeth her mother.   Therefore, would seem thus far that Annie was bc.1874 Sherborne, Dorset (per 1901 census) or bc.1875 Trent, Somerset (per 1891 census when she is with Alfred Garrett and wife Elizabeth.)   

Can't see an obvious birth entry for her under either name, or find her on 1881 census under either name???

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Offline avm228

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Re: Henry Sweetland born 1870 Yarcombe - please can anyone help?
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 00:52 GMT (UK) »
This looks like the family in 1891:

Evercreech, Somerset

Alfred Garrett Head 40 Farm labourer Trent Somerset
Elizabeth do Wife 43 Trent Somerset
Ann do Daur 16 Domestic servant Trent Somerset
John Henry do Son 8 Sherborne Dorset
Ellen do Daur 6 Piddle? Dorset
Mary Elizabeth do Daur 4 Buckhorn Weston, Dorset

RG12/1912/30/4

If you have a look for these Garretts in 1911 you should be able to match their address with that on their grandson Henry’s baptism in 1898.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline avm228

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Re: Henry Sweetland born 1870 Yarcombe - please can anyone help?
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 00:55 GMT (UK) »
In 1881 I think our Annie is Elizabeth A Stacey, 6 b Trent, in Trent with mother Elizabeth who in turn is living with her father Thomas Stacey: RG11/2118/36/1 (Sherborne reg district).

Possible birth reg: Elizabeth Stacey (no separate mmn), Sep qtr 1875 Sherborne 5a 348.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline avm228

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Re: Henry Sweetland born 1870 Yarcombe - please can anyone help?
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 01:02 GMT (UK) »
Baptised at Trent, Somerset

30 July 1876

Elizabeth Ann Stacey, daughter of Elizabeth Stacey.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)


Offline emjsw

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Re: Henry Sweetland born 1870 Yarcombe - please can anyone help?
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 01:08 GMT (UK) »
Baptism, St Mary Magdalene, Taunton

16 Feb 1898

Henry John Sweetland, son of Henry (a groom) and Annie, of Ct 1, High St.

This Taunton-born Henry appears in both censuses afterwards with a Taunton birthplace.  Why are you thinking he was born in Chard?  If that is from an Army record, bear in mind that people very often referred to a place where they had been brought up, thinking they had been born there.

His siblings:

Gladys Anne Sweetland mmn Garrett Sep qtr 1903 Williton
Olive Louise Sweetland mmn Garrett, Jun qtr 1905 Williton
Ellen May Sweetland mmn Garrett, Jun qtr 1906 Williton
Florence Elsie Sweetland mmn Garrett, Sep qtr 1908 Wellington
Evelyn Maud Sweetland mmn Stacey, Jun qtr 1910 Chard
Edith Violet Sweetland mmn Garrett, Sep qtr 1914 Chard
Albert George Sweetland mmn Garrett, Jun qtr 1916 Chard

That is interesting and Garrett being the mother's maiden name for all of those births makes it very clear. He said he was born in Chard so I just assumed that to be correct (as Taunton is the registration centre) however he could very well have been born in Taunton as it is not far away. On his parent's wedding certificate, her address is given as The High Street which is where Henry John was born but then on that Wedding certificate it says Henry son of Nathaniel Sweetland and Annie Stacey daughter of Alfred Stacey got married?

As you say below, she was a Stacey because she was born before her mum married Alfred Garrett perhaps the registrar on hearing her surname, just assumed her step father was her father and assumed he was a Stacey and used this surname when the document was filled in? Perhaps later she started to use Garrett as her maiden name (when she registered her children).

Name   Henry Sweetland
Gender   Male
Age   26
Birth Year   abt 1870
Marriage or Bann Date   20 Dec 1896
Marriage Place   Taunton St Mary, Somerset, England
Parish as it Appears   Taunton St Mary Magdalene
Search Photos   Taunton St Mary, Somerset, England
Father   Nathaniel Sweetland
Spouse   Annie Stacey
Household Members   
Name   Age
Henry Sweetland   
Nathaniel Sweetland   
Annie Stacey   
Alfred Stacey

Thank you so much for all of this information, the confusion was whirling round in my head and I couldn't work it out, you have solved this mystery for us, my dad will be really chuffed to find this out. Thank you so much :)
Sweetland (Chard/Yarcoombe/Honiton)
Garret/Stacey (Somerset)
Boultern/Boulton (Reading)
Crowther (Wolverhampton/Wednesbury/Birmingham)
Myres (Wolverhampton)
Palmer (Nottingham)
Cosby (Leighton Buzzard/Woodstock/Kidlington)
Hope (Oxford/Kidlington/Woodstock)
Williams (Yorkshire/Conisborough)
Draper (Bow Brickhill)
Draper Smith (Bow Brickhill/Woburn Sands)
Smith (Woburn Sands)

Offline avm228

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Re: Henry Sweetland born 1870 Yarcombe - please can anyone help?
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 01:14 GMT (UK) »
You’ll find it is very common for a white lie to have been told about paternity at the time of marriage by a person born outside wedlock - presumably this was to save blushes when illegitimacy carried a stigma.  No checks were done on the information provided by bride and groom.

It appears from the 1891 census that Annie was already using Garrett as her surname, conforming with the rest of the family.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline emjsw

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Re: Henry Sweetland born 1870 Yarcombe - please can anyone help?
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 01:15 GMT (UK) »
Baptism, St Mary Magdalene, Taunton

16 Feb 1898

Henry John Sweetland, son of Henry (a groom) and Annie, of Ct 1, High St.

This Taunton-born Henry appears in both censuses afterwards with a Taunton birthplace.  Why are you thinking he was born in Chard?  If that is from an Army record, bear in mind that people very often referred to a place where they had been brought up, thinking they had been born there.

His siblings:

Gladys Anne Sweetland mmn Garrett Sep qtr 1903 Williton
Olive Louise Sweetland mmn Garrett, Jun qtr 1905 Williton
Ellen May Sweetland mmn Garrett, Jun qtr 1906 Williton
Florence Elsie Sweetland mmn Garrett, Sep qtr 1908 Wellington
Evelyn Maud Sweetland mmn Stacey, Jun qtr 1910 Chard
Edith Violet Sweetland mmn Garrett, Sep qtr 1914 Chard
Albert George Sweetland mmn Garrett, Jun qtr 1916 Chard

It is interesting that all of her children are registered with her 'step' maiden name Garrett but Evelyn is registered with her Stacey maiden name, I wonder why that was?!
Sweetland (Chard/Yarcoombe/Honiton)
Garret/Stacey (Somerset)
Boultern/Boulton (Reading)
Crowther (Wolverhampton/Wednesbury/Birmingham)
Myres (Wolverhampton)
Palmer (Nottingham)
Cosby (Leighton Buzzard/Woodstock/Kidlington)
Hope (Oxford/Kidlington/Woodstock)
Williams (Yorkshire/Conisborough)
Draper (Bow Brickhill)
Draper Smith (Bow Brickhill/Woburn Sands)
Smith (Woburn Sands)

Offline emjsw

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Re: Henry Sweetland born 1870 Yarcombe - please can anyone help?
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 01:17 GMT (UK) »
You’ll find it is very common for a white lie to have been told about paternity at the time of marriage by a person born outside wedlock - presumably this was to save blushes when illegitimacy carried a stigma.  No checks were done on the information provided by bride and groom.

It appears from the 1891 census that Annie was already using Garrett as her surname, conforming with the rest of the family.

Ah I see, I hadn't thought of that, I am still learning and therefore I am really grateful to you for the pointers, thank you.
Sweetland (Chard/Yarcoombe/Honiton)
Garret/Stacey (Somerset)
Boultern/Boulton (Reading)
Crowther (Wolverhampton/Wednesbury/Birmingham)
Myres (Wolverhampton)
Palmer (Nottingham)
Cosby (Leighton Buzzard/Woodstock/Kidlington)
Hope (Oxford/Kidlington/Woodstock)
Williams (Yorkshire/Conisborough)
Draper (Bow Brickhill)
Draper Smith (Bow Brickhill/Woburn Sands)
Smith (Woburn Sands)

Offline avm228

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Re: Henry Sweetland born 1870 Yarcombe - please can anyone help?
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 01:18 GMT (UK) »
Re Evelyn’s registration - who knows why Stacey pops up!  Without the certificate we don’t know who the informant of this birth was, and whether different from the informants on the other births. Again this sort of variation is not uncommon where there is some ambiguity as to the mother’s “correct” maiden name, i.e. where the surname she used growing up or immediately before her marriage was different from the one she was born with.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)