Did James Cosby have all of these children?

[emjsw]

Hi there,

I am trying to find the origins of Thomas Cosby born in Leighton Buzzard, below is the only Thomas Cosby I can find in Leighton Buzzard that fits with subsequent census results (but I can't be sure all of the below is for the same Thomas). My main interest is his father James but I wanted to give you the facts I have sources for first:

Name:   Thomas Cossby
Baptism Date:   25 Dec 1808
Baptism Place:   Leighton Buzzard,Bedford,England
Father:   James Cossby
Mother:   Alice
FHL Film Number:   845460

I think Thomas went on to marry:

11 Jul 1828 • Leighton Buzzard,Bedford,England
Hannah Row (1810–1835)

I think they had the following children but can't find the mothers maiden name so can't be sure:

All Leigton Buzzard. Son John Cosby(1831–1909), Louisa Cosby(1832–), Ann Cosby(1834–1877)

Hannah then dies.

Marriage
3 Jun 1836 • Leighton Buzzard
Eliza marries as Reeves after her 1st marriage to Cornelius who dies aged 24 but her maiden name was Pratt. Eliza Pratt (1806–1891)

Births all Leighton Buzzard - Emma Pratt Cosby(1837–1886), Thomas Cosby(1840–1888), James Cosby(1842–), Charles Cosby(1845–1918), Henry Cosby(1845/8–1892), William Cosby(1851–1908)

So that is the history of Thomas but the bit I am trying to fathom is whether the father James I list below is the same James who fathers all of the below children. This is pieced together from bmd and census info (particularly the 1841 census).

The bit I find most confusing is the mothers for the children, I can't find the mother's maiden names in relation to the children or the marriages, I have assumed alot BUT it looks like he also married an Eliza Pratt like his son, who seems to be of a similar age but perhaps they are different people?

I could only find a Jas marrying an Alice:
Name   Jas Cosby
Marriage Date   20 Apr 1807
Marriage Place   Leighton Buzzard,Bedford,England
Spouse   Alice Simons
FHL Film Number   826454, 84546

Births Leighton Buzzard.
Thomas Cossby, Baptism Date:   25 Dec 1808
Father:   James Cossby (Jas???)
Mother:   Alice
FHL Film Number:   845460

The family then vanish and I don't know if the below are Thomas's siblings or whether James and Alice had any more children. I can't find a death for Alice.

About 14 years later a James Causby/Casby/Cosby appears in Leighton Buzzard with the correct year of birth.

Where did he go???

I then think the following children are born to an Elizabeth/Eliza (maiden name unknown/marriage unknown) and they are all baptised Wesleyan at Eaton Bray. In the 1841 census this James is 60 (so year of birth fits) 'Eliza' is 40 but I think this Eliza is Eliza Pratt who he marries in 1827 and perhaps not the mother of the below.

Ann Mariah Cosby(1822–), Eaton Bray, Miriam Cosby(1822–) Eaton Bray, Jabez Cosby(1823–) Eaton Bray, Caleb Cosby(1825–) Eaton Bray,

The following are Christened at All Saints in LB (mother unknown). I assume James moved his family on, James and Richard are not with James in the 1841 census.

James Cosby(1826–1865)(perhaps Eliza Pratt's son before marriage?), Richard Cosby(1827–)

Marriage
30 Nov 1827 • Leighton Buzzard,Bedford,England
Eliza Pratt (1800–) Is this the same Eliza Pratt that Thomas married in 1836?

Adelaide Cosby(1831–) MOTHER IS CALLED HANNAH but Adelaide is living with James and Eliza in 1841. Eliza's children - Harriett Cosby(1832–), Allice Cosby(1832–),Ann Mariah Cosby(1837–),Mary Cosby(1838–)

If these are the children born to James b 1779 then he was abt 59 when he fathered Mary and his wife 49.

James's parents could be John and Ann Cosby.

So I wondered if anyone out there might know or have some ideas as to whether there is more than 1 James?
Where he could of vanished to after the birth of Thomas
Did James and Alice have other children? What happened to Alice?
Was 'my' James the father of all of the children listed?
Who is the Eliza/Elizabeth mother to the Wesleyan baptised children?
Did James have an affair with Hannah causing Eliza Pratt to marry Thomas in stead?
Are Thomas and James in this scenario even related?

Sorry for all the questions, I have searched and searched on Ancestry.co.uk but can't find any of the answers and am not sure where to look now.

Best wishes,
Emma

PS if there is any information that I can provide that might be of interest to you please ask.

[polarbear]

Assuming I have found the correct family....

1841 census has:

James Cosby 60
Elizabeth 40
Jabez 15
Caleb 14
Adelaide 11
Ann 8
Mary 4

1851 census has:

Elizabeth 51 Widow
Adelaide 23
Ann 15
Mary Ann 12

The GRO index has a birth for a Mary Ann Cosby MMN Rawlins
Leighton Buzzard S qtr 1938 Vol 06 Pg 79

This birth looks like it might fit this family.

PB

[Pheno]

There is a death for a 65 year old James Cosby registered LB in the final quarter of 1842 on the gro site indicating a birth year of approx 1777 which fits your theory.

Pheno

[emjsw]

Hi Polarbear

Thank you for the new lead to investigate, I hadn't seen the Rawlins information before. Any new pice of information is greatly appreciated as I want to work out whether the 3 batches of children are all born to the same James or if Thomas's parents James (maybe Jas) and Alice moved somewhere else. It is really difficult to work it all out! Thank you for your help


Hi Pheno,

The death of James in 1845 fits really well. Thank you very much for your help

[polarbear]

I think....

If Eliza/Elizabeth with Thomas and Eliza/Elizabeth with James are both having children after 1836 then you must surely have 2 different Eliza/Elizabeths. The GRO index definitely has MMN Pratt for Thomas b. 1839 and Henry b. 1847 (2 I found, should be children of Thomas and Eliza/Elizabeth) and MMN Rawlins for Mary Ann b. 1838 (should be daughter of James and Eliza/Elizabeth).

It is possible that the Curate simply made an error when putting Hannah down as Adelaide's mother.

PB

[emjsw]

Thank you for your help. You are right there must be 2 Eliza/Elisabeths, I got bogged down in all of the dates and names and couldn't see the wood for the trees. Thank you for clarifying.

1841 census:
I also think there are 2 James Cosbys on reflection as well

James 1 = Jaz Casby b 1811, married to Eliza with children Harriett 14, Alice 12, Alfred, 7, William 5,  Edwin 3 and Ned 0.

James 2 =  James Cosby b 1781, m Elizabeth age 40, Jabez 15, Caleb, 14, Adelaide 11, Ann 8 and Mary 4.  Jabez and Caleb completely vanish in 1851/61/71/81 census records.

I think James 1 is the right age to perhaps be Thomas' (b.1808) brother. The only one old enough to be Thomas' father is James 2 b 1781 BUT Thomas would have been 12 when Jabez was born and probably by 1841 would have been 27, too old to be with his birth family on the census records. So I can't prove James 2 is his father

On this census Thomas could be Thos Casby b.1811 (adding on 3 years) (with Eliza 30, John 10, Ann 5, Emma 5, Thomas 2, Louisa 10)

BUT I don't know who Thomas' father is, it could be the James m to Alice in 1807 but again I am not sure.

Is there any way to know for sure for pre 1837 bmd do you know?? I am not sure which sites people use. I use ancestry and family search but some records others find, I can't seem to!!

Anyway thank you so much for your time and effort spent in solving parts of this puzzle. It is nice to be able to separate the Eliza/Elizabeths.

All the best Em

[polarbear]

Yes, it looks like there are two families with a James and Eliza/Elizabeth. The MMN for the second family appears to be Parrott (GRO index).

The family you cited above with the Ned age 0......I personally think the image reads Male 1 Month and will be Charles registered J qtr 1841 MMN Parrott (GRO index).

If I remember correctly, Thomas and the younger James are both bricklayers in the 1841 census. This doesn't really prove they are brothers but it is a tantalizing thought. They are of a correct age to be brothers for sure but I haven't yet been able to find a baptism for James.

Without actual certificates to give parents it is difficult to prove who anyone's parents are prior to 01 July 1837. We are all in the same boat with our tree searches. It makes sense at the moment, however, that Thomas is the son of James and Alice. New records coming on line in the future may turn up another family but for now I think you could have the relationship at least tentatively.

Most people use Ancestry and familysearch, also findmypast, which has some records that differ from Ancestry. Others have local access to records.

It looks like Jabez got into some trouble with the law (assuming he is the same one). Can't remember if I have seen Caleb in later censuses.

PB

[Pheno]

Also the younger James has a daughter Alice - named after his mother possibly.

Pheno

[polarbear]

I wonder.....

The thought has crossed my mind that when the younger James married Eliza/Elizabeth "Pratt" the Curate may have heard Parrott as Pratt and wrote it thusly. I don't know how you would now get a copy of the original parish record with familysearch no longer lending out films. I don't know whether you can order copies through them? Or perhaps through Bedfordshire Archives? Witnesses might also be helpful but aren't listed on the transcripts.

PB

Edited to add: it looks like 2 of their children, Jane and Edwin, emigrated to the United States and died in Westfield Massachusetts USA.