Author Topic: Stuck locating Byrne parents of my great grandfather  (Read 2703 times)

Offline ciaranob

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Re: Stuck locating Byrne parents of my great grandfather
« Reply #18 on: Friday 02 February 18 17:34 GMT (UK) »
Please see previous post above where i had already located this possibility - however this is impossible as Elizabeth would have been 10 years old in 1871 (1901 census has Elizabeth married to Arthur as 40 yrs old).  We also have a hard date of Patrick their son as born in 1881 - he was living in Newbridge at the time (lots of other corroborating evidence that this was him).

Arthur BYRNE m Elizabeth BYRNE on Oct 19 1871 in Killaveney
according to church records LINK

LINK to civil records

Father of Arthur is Hugh BYRNE a farmer; his age is 25 implying born 1846
Father of Elizabeth is Denis BYRNE a farmer; her age 23 implying born 1848
This would also imply the 1901 census ages are "a little" out which is not unusual

Patrick b April 25 1879
Denis b Nov 01 1883
Arthur b May 31 1885

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Offline hallmark

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Re: Stuck locating Byrne parents of my great grandfather
« Reply #19 on: Friday 02 February 18 17:37 GMT (UK) »
Please see previous post above where i had already located this possibility - however this is impossible as Elizabeth would have been 10 years old in 1871 (1901 census has Elizabeth married to Arthur as 40 yrs old).  We also have a hard date of Patrick their son as born in 1881 - he was living in Newbridge at the time (lots of other corroborating evidence that this was him).

Arthur BYRNE m Elizabeth BYRNE on Oct 19 1871 in Killaveney
according to church records LINK

LINK to civil records

Father of Arthur is Hugh BYRNE a farmer; his age is 25 implying born 1846
Father of Elizabeth is Denis BYRNE a farmer; her age 23 implying born 1848
This would also imply the 1901 census ages are "a little" out which is not unusual

Patrick b April 25 1879
Denis b Nov 01 1883
Arthur b May 31 1885


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Offline ciaranob

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Re: Stuck locating Byrne parents of my great grandfather
« Reply #20 on: Friday 02 February 18 17:37 GMT (UK) »
Indeed - tough to know re the first and no way from that record to validate, right?  Unfortunately also gets us no further with Arthur's candidates parents - random searches of Charles Byrne has yielded sod all too to date (that is verifiable as a hard link to Arthur) - only tantalizing piece is the baptismal record  have from Kilvaney Parish.

Offline ciaranob

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Re: Stuck locating Byrne parents of my great grandfather
« Reply #21 on: Friday 02 February 18 17:39 GMT (UK) »
Arthur and Elizabeth's eldest son (my grandfather) was born in 1881.

Please see previous post above where i had already located this possibility - however this is impossible as Elizabeth would have been 10 years old in 1871 (1901 census has Elizabeth married to Arthur as 40 yrs old).  We also have a hard date of Patrick their son as born in 1881 - he was living in Newbridge at the time (lots of other corroborating evidence that this was him).

Arthur BYRNE m Elizabeth BYRNE on Oct 19 1871 in Killaveney
according to church records LINK

LINK to civil records

Father of Arthur is Hugh BYRNE a farmer; his age is 25 implying born 1846
Father of Elizabeth is Denis BYRNE a farmer; her age 23 implying born 1848
This would also imply the 1901 census ages are "a little" out which is not unusual

Patrick b April 25 1879
Denis b Nov 01 1883
Arthur b May 31 1885


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Offline myluck!

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Re: Stuck locating Byrne parents of my great grandfather
« Reply #22 on: Friday 02 February 18 17:39 GMT (UK) »
Ballymanus borders Ballinglen to the south

Remembering that BYRNE is a very common name it is always wise to double check things however as you can see on the marriage record in 1871 Arthur made his mark X rather than write so his literacy was low; this can lead to ages being distorted on records. The earlier in life you find a record the more accurate you can expect it to be.

Also this couple have more than six children
LINK to baptism register
Joseph bap Oct 12 1871
Laurence bap May 1872
Hugh bap Mar 06 1876
Maria bap Sep 06 1877
Patrick b Apr 25 1879
Anne bap Mar 24 1882
Denis b Nov 01 1883
Arthur b May 31 1885
Margaret - not found
Elizabeth - not found

I cannot find any reference to the name Charles but the two father's names from the marriage record (Hugh and Denis) are among the children
Kearney & Bourke/ Johns & Fox/ Mannion & Finan/ Donohoe & Curley
Byrne [Carthy], Keeffe/ Germaine, Butler/ McDermott, Giblin/ Lally, Dolan
Toole, Doran; Dowling, Grogan/ Reilly, Burke; Warren, Kidd [Lawless]/ Smith, Scally; Mangan, Rodgers/ Fahy, Calday; Staunton, Miller
Further generations:
Brophy Coleman Eathorn(e) Fahy Fitzpatrick Geraghty Haverty Keane Keogh Nowlan Rowe Walder

Offline myluck!

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Re: Stuck locating Byrne parents of my great grandfather
« Reply #23 on: Friday 02 February 18 17:44 GMT (UK) »
Baptism of Art BYRNE
s/o Hugh BYRNE and Margaret KEEGAN on Mar 31 1846 in Killaveney
LINK to baptism
address given as Ballymanus
(six from bottom on left page)
Kearney & Bourke/ Johns & Fox/ Mannion & Finan/ Donohoe & Curley
Byrne [Carthy], Keeffe/ Germaine, Butler/ McDermott, Giblin/ Lally, Dolan
Toole, Doran; Dowling, Grogan/ Reilly, Burke; Warren, Kidd [Lawless]/ Smith, Scally; Mangan, Rodgers/ Fahy, Calday; Staunton, Miller
Further generations:
Brophy Coleman Eathorn(e) Fahy Fitzpatrick Geraghty Haverty Keane Keogh Nowlan Rowe Walder

Offline ciaranob

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Re: Stuck locating Byrne parents of my great grandfather
« Reply #24 on: Friday 02 February 18 17:47 GMT (UK) »
My grandmother (daughter of Patrick Byrne the son of Arthur and Elizabeth) is still alive and from her we know for certain that Patrick was born in Ballinglen and that his brothers were Arthur and Denis and sisters were Margaret, Elizabeth and Anne.  I have census, marriage and death records for Patrick that all validate his age at multiple stages which was 20 in 1901 hence born 1881.  The link you are pointing me too I had also reviewed and this record simply does not seem to match up on multiple fronts so improbable at best.  By contrast the Arthur and Elizabeth record on the 1901 census in Ballinglen appears spot on in respect ages of youngest sons and fact that older children had already moved on.

Ballymanus borders Ballinglen to the south

Remembering that BYRNE is a very common name it is always wise to double check things however as you can see on the marriage record in 1871 Arthur made his mark X rather than write so his literacy was low; this can lead to ages being distorted on records. The earlier in life you find a record the more accurate you can expect it to be.

Also this couple have more than six children
LINK to baptism register
Joseph bap Oct 12 1871
Laurence bap May 1872
Hugh bap Mar 06 1876
Maria bap Sep 06 1877
Patrick b Apr 25 1879
Anne bap Mar 24 1882
Denis b Nov 01 1883
Arthur b May 31 1885
Margaret - not found
Elizabeth - not found

I cannot find any reference to the name Charles but the two father's names from the marriage record (Hugh and Denis) are among the children

Offline myluck!

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Re: Stuck locating Byrne parents of my great grandfather
« Reply #25 on: Friday 02 February 18 17:55 GMT (UK) »
I cannot find another BYRNE family with a combination of parents Arthur and Elizabeth with children, Denis, Arthur and Patrick
 
Having the children's ages correct on the census is more probable as I mentioned before that the younger you were the more accurate the recorded age

It is wonderful to have family to give you information but sometimes it can become distorted or inaccurate in being retold - we can never by trully confident of information until we have records to prove it.

I would suggest you keep a note of this family and not rule it out completely

Ballinglen/Ballymanus border each other - do you the exact location of their house? it may have been close to the border
Kearney & Bourke/ Johns & Fox/ Mannion & Finan/ Donohoe & Curley
Byrne [Carthy], Keeffe/ Germaine, Butler/ McDermott, Giblin/ Lally, Dolan
Toole, Doran; Dowling, Grogan/ Reilly, Burke; Warren, Kidd [Lawless]/ Smith, Scally; Mangan, Rodgers/ Fahy, Calday; Staunton, Miller
Further generations:
Brophy Coleman Eathorn(e) Fahy Fitzpatrick Geraghty Haverty Keane Keogh Nowlan Rowe Walder

Offline ciaranob

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Re: Stuck locating Byrne parents of my great grandfather
« Reply #26 on: Friday 02 February 18 18:01 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for your input - very much appreciated.

For ref this is the family link to Arthur and Elizabeth as previously posted:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wicklow/Ballinglen/Ballinglen/1819089/

Patrick, their eldest son, was 20 years old and living as a boarder in Newbridge, Co. Kildare working as a carpenter (his verified trade through multiple sources) - have high confidence that this is him and thus of course Patrick would not be recorded on the 1901 census as living with his parents.  Ditto for his sisters who had also would have left home by that stage (all in their 20's), thus leaving only Denis and Arthur as the only remaining children recorded in Ballinglen with parents Arthur and Elizabeth. 

I cannot find another BYRNE family with a combination of parents Arthur and Elizabeth with children, Denis, Arthur and Patrick
 
Having the children's ages correct on the census is more probable as I mentioned before that the younger you were the more accurate the recorded age

It is wonderful to have family to give you information but sometimes it can become distorted or inaccurate in being retold - we can never by trully confident of information until we have records to prove it.

I would suggest you keep a note of this family and not rule it out completely

Ballinglen/Ballymanus border each other - do you the exact location of their house? it may have been close to the border