John RONSON b. 1785 @Egremont. Lived @ Dalston. Baptism, Marriage and Death help

[This Boy]

I am researching my RONSON Dalston Cumberland ancestors, in this instance John RONSON b Egremont 1785. I have basic/beginners family history knowledge and am very newly acquainted with online family history research.
I have recently subscribed to Ancestry.com and The British Newspaper Archive.

John was a Gardner and lived for much of his life in Buckabank, Dalston. However, I simply cannot find John's baptism, his marriage or his death listed despite knowing quite a lot his life.

BAPTISM. His place of birth in listed as Egremont in the 1861 census and Elderment in the 1851. I interpret this as  a strong indication that it was Egremont. I have good reason to strongly suspect that he had 3 brothers whose arrival in Dalston seeded my family line. I am trying to prove or disprove my theory:

Brother One: William (spelling wrong - ROANSON - in record), born 30/11/1780 and baptised at Saint Bees, Cumberland on 1/12/1780 to John RONSON and Agnes (nee Garnet). I know next to nothing about what happened to William.
Brother Two: Joseph born 15/11/1787 (one census source says born at Pennybridge, Lancashire) and baptised at Saint Bees, Cumberland on 9/12/1787  to John and Agnes (nee Garnet). I know lots about Joseph.
Brother Three: Anthony born 29/08/1791 (one census source says Lancashire) and baptised at Saint Bees, Cumberland to John and Jane!  - Frustratingly I cannot find a death of Agnes the mother of the first two or a marriage of a John to a Jane either.I know lots about Anthony.

I notice how close Egremont is to Saint Bees and wonder if they shared the same recording boundaries. Does anyone please have easy access to parish records which may identify John's birth or baptism and, particularly link him in to parents John and Agnes. If not, can anybody with good knowledge of what records exist suggest where I perhaps should be looking. Obviously, finding a death of Agnes and a subsequent marriage of John to Jane between 1787 and 1791 would be a spectacular bonus and more or less solve my mystery.

MARRIAGE.
John, like Anthony and Joseph lived in or very close to Dalston for much of his life. Market Gardening seemed to be the family trade. Anthony married Jane Clapperson at Dalston in 1809 and Joseph, again at Dalston, married Ann Price in 1812.  Both couples had plenty children born in Dalston. John APPEARS to have married a Mary Armstrong (census birthplace Abbey Lanercost) They certainly had 5 children between 1807 and 1817 and appear on later census returns as John and Mary RONSON. The latter 4 children were all born in Dalston including the penultimate child who was named Agnes (perhaps after her grandmother!) However the first child was William RONSON who was baptised on 11/01/1807 at St Andrews, Penrith. I am assuming (dangerous I know) that John and Mary had married by this time and perhaps not too far from Penrith. I cannot find the marriage online. A few people on Ancestry have attributed a Lancaster Marriage of a John Ronson and Mary Hall in 1814 to 'my' John but this is very clearly wrong.

Does anyone please have easy access to parish records which may identify John and Mary's marriage? If not, can anybody with good knowledge of what records and indexes exist suggest where I perhaps should be looking?

DEATH. I know from a newspaper report that Mary, wife of John RONSON, Gardner, died aged 85 at Buckabank (the family farm) in 1858. By 1861 John, aged 76, is living with his daughter Isabella at  Bewaldeth and Snittlegarth. By 1871 he is no longer listed with the family. I have found a death in Q4 of 1864 at Carlisle but there are around 8 John RONSONs that this could be. If he died between the 1861 and 71 census returns at Bewaldeth and Snittlegarth does anybody know if the death would have been recorded at Carlisle. Also, does anyone have any other suggestions about how I can find any other death/burial records other than the death certificate?

Any help or even empathy at my frustration (and beginners impatience :-) will be very gratefully received.

Thank you for reading.

Neil.

[..claire..]

Hi

A baptism at St Bees which is a couple of miles away from Egremont

John RAWNSON bapt. 6 Jun 1784 St Bees, son of John Rawnson and Agnes

claire

[This Boy]

Wow!

Claire, thank you so very much. So pleased to receive that.
 

Wonderful find for me.

Neil.

[..claire..]

You're welcome

I can't see a possible burial for Agnes but this is only a possible marriage - if it's correct the actual registers must be in a dire condition.

John Renkin married Jane Wilson 17 Nov 1789 St Bees

Possibly try to rule this man out, but it came up as a variant of Ranson. If correct then it also narrows down a burial for Agnes too.

Claire

[..claire..]

PS: welcome to RootsChat 

[Geoff-E]

Bewaldeth and Snittlegarth was in Cockermouth Reg Dist https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/cockermouth.html

The chap who died in Carlisle in 1864 was aged 80.

Carlisle district would include Dalston https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/carlisle.html

[This Boy]

Big thanks Geoff and Claire,

Claire - I am very confident that you have found John's baptism there for me. Food for thought too re the 1789 marriage. I have found a record of an Agnes still living in the 1851 census in Ulverston. She is a widow, a schoolmistress and aged 78. On one hand the reference in Joseph's census place of birth as Pennybridge (Ulveston, Lancashire) and Anthony's declared census place of birth as 'Lancashire' make me think this COULD be my Agnes - bad news for me I think if it is as how on earth does Anthony have a different mother to his brother - unless, of course there are two different men, both called John Ronson living in the Saint Bees/Egremont area at the same time and both their sons end up farming almost next door to each other 40 miles North a couple of decades later?. On the other hand her age makes her an improbable mother of John and Joseph IF the age given as 78 is correct. The plot thickens. Lots for me to ponder and probe tonight.

Geoff, that really helps me to narrow down which John RONSON is the 4th Q 1864 one. I will probably order the certificate but first will consider the location information you have given me. Busy night ahead. Thanks again.

I have found a couple of other bits out such was my nocturnal drive to crack this. I was finding the frustration of uncertainty was predominant in my experience of family history but it is outweighed by the addictive joy of making progress on a tricky issue. So grateful to you both for your help.

I have found a record of the baptism of John and Mary's third child Anne in 1810 which throws some new light on this case. It reads: May 6th -  Anne, daughter of John RONSON  of Buckhowbank, weaver, and Mary his wife late Watson, 1st Armstrong. Gretna Wedding.

My interpretation of this is that John was clearly a weaver before he became a farmer/market gardner at Buckabank - perhaps this is why he arrived in the first place. Second, and of more importance, there is something of significance about the wedding being a Gretna Wedding which may explain why I have been thus far unable to find it. This is especially so given that, if I understand the above correctly Mary had been previously married to a Mr Watson (I found a likely marriage to a Robert Watson 7/9/1794 at Lanercost and possible deaths for Robert Watson in 1802 and 1803) prior to marrying John. I had been intrigued when I spotted in census returns last week that Mary was ten years older than John. I have briefly read about Gretna weddings and need clearly need to research more about these but again any help or suggested lines of enquiry will be very gratefully received. Another corroborative fact that I found in the Dalston baptism of John's second child Isabella 1808 is that he is referred to as John RONSON junr. Am I right in thinking that this means his own father was called John too? If so this fits nicely.

So, I shall be studying all this in detail tonight and trying to work out what it all means and how to progress. Again, big thanks for this FANTASTIC help thus far.

Neil.

[Gan Yam]

There's a death in the Carlisle Journal, Friday 25th November 1864 (British Newspaper Archive)
"At Dalston Green, on the ?th inst., suddenly, Mr. John Ronson, gardener, formerly of Buckabank, aged ? years."

I dont have access to BNA so cant read it fully, but this seems like your guy?

Added:  If he was living in Dalston, he could be buried in Dalston churchyard  or alternatively in Carlisle Cemetery, which isn’t very far from Dalston.

[This Boy]

Gan Yam, Yet again thank you. I have found that article now. I think in combination with Geoff's info this convinces me that this death is my John (junior). Time to order the certificate I think. I am struggling to avoid getting very confused myself. I have to keep going back, checking and rechecking to focus my efforts. I also think I need to improve my own searching skills.

Just settling down with a cup of tea now to try and find the marriage of John (junior) to Mary Watson (nee Armstrong) at Gretna and to try to find the Saint Bee's John (senior or maybe even 2 St Bee's John Ronsons), Agnes Ronson nee Garnet and Jane Ronson (possibly nee Wilson?). Births marriages and deaths. Any advice on where to look and how to solve my puzzle greatly appreciated. However, I have already made more progress in 24 hours than I ever expected sobig  thanks to all again.

Neil.