Author Topic: Caroline Davis possibly Emery c 1874  (Read 6315 times)

Offline NormanE

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 438
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Caroline Davis possibly Emery c 1874
« Reply #36 on: Sunday 25 February 18 08:10 GMT (UK) »
From NormanE
Thanks for the latest comments and suggestions

I am realising that as a senior senior I don't see all the options available so clearly or so quickly

First the Frederick Udale 1893 marriage certificate didn't arrive yesterday.  I am now feeling this won't add anything since looking at the GRO Index page  for the marriage, CAROLINE has been added by hand at the bottom of the Davis page.  I have written to the GRO to see if there is any documentation available covering the change.

As part of my slower thinking process I have realised that as the Frederick marriage was by BANNS and there could be Banns records available. I'll contact Derbyshire Records Office tomorrow.

I am not sure the latest thought has any value. The Christian names of Frederick's two Udale children, Carrie and Sarah Annie could be linked to relationships.  Carrie is a Pet name for Caroline, Sarah is the name of Frederick's mother and what about the Annie on the marriage certificate.

Tomorrow may bring progress

NormanE


Offline heywood

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 40,655
    • View Profile
Re: Caroline Davis possibly Emery c 1874
« Reply #37 on: Sunday 25 February 18 08:26 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the update Norman. Let’s hope the certificate arrives soon.

As you can see, we don’t like to give up.  :)

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline NormanE

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 438
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Caroline Davis possibly Emery c 1874
« Reply #38 on: Tuesday 27 February 18 09:08 GMT (UK) »
From NormanE
The marriage certificate for Frederick Udales 1893 marriage has arrived. As I feared the document has no mention of the change to Caroline Davis and leaves us with Annie Newmans and Annie Yeomans.
We are probably getting near to an unfulfilled end to this saga with only the hopes of marriage banns existing and my query to the GRO about 3 candidate brides.
Sarah Annie Udales 1898 Birth certificate says mother is Caroline formerly Emery. Interestingly Frederick Udale is described as a " Licensed Hawker"  and not the Engine Driver at the marriage or on Sarah Annie's Death Certificate
NormanE   

Offline heywood

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 40,655
    • View Profile
Re: Caroline Davis possibly Emery c 1874
« Reply #39 on: Tuesday 27 February 18 09:44 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Norman.
Yes it seems as though it has reached a conclusion - it all remains a mystery.

I wonder if he swapped brides as he seems to have swapped jobs.

Best wishes
Heywood
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline avm228

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,827
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Caroline Davis possibly Emery c 1874
« Reply #40 on: Tuesday 27 February 18 10:04 GMT (UK) »
I still think Carrie’s birth certificate would be interesting, in that she may have been born at the Emery family home.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline heywood

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 40,655
    • View Profile
Re: Caroline Davis possibly Emery c 1874
« Reply #41 on: Tuesday 27 February 18 10:18 GMT (UK) »
I still think Carrie’s birth certificate would be interesting, in that she may have been born at the Emery family home.

Yes that’s a good point and would hopefully confirm the Emery relationship.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline NormanE

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 438
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Caroline Davis possibly Emery c 1874
« Reply #42 on: Sunday 04 March 18 11:42 GMT (UK) »
From NormanE
Some developments here at last
The hoped for Marriage Banns for Frederick's 1893 marriage don't exist unfortunately.
The Marriage Certificate for the 1893 marriage has arrived. Looking at the Certificate it seems to me that Frederick and bride (Caroline?) had nothing to do with the writing on it. The writing seems to be the same as the curates,  W M Drake who signed it.
Could this be the reason Frederick and Caroline returned to correct the document.  If I am right the curate is going to get a piece of my mind!!!
NormanE

Offline avm228

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,827
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Caroline Davis possibly Emery c 1874
« Reply #43 on: Sunday 04 March 18 11:49 GMT (UK) »
NormanE - from what you say, the certificate you have received has been written out at the GRO, if that is where you ordered it from.  That is why all the writing is the same - it’s all one (modern) person writing it out for the purposes of providing a certificate, long after the event.  It is not an image of the marriage register, which I think you have already seen online, amendments and all. 

The certificate could never have provided better information than the original marriage register, which was written up at the time of the marriage, signed by the parties at the time, and is also where the amendments were originally made.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline NormanE

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 438
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Caroline Davis possibly Emery c 1874
« Reply #44 on: Sunday 04 March 18 13:11 GMT (UK) »
Thanks AVM228
You are absolutely right the original with the corrections is different from the latest version.  However does this mean the latest version( which has all the black dots of an old version on the paper) is GRO's considered?  If you remember I have an unanswered query about this.
Almost back to square one again.
NormanE