HOW DO I PROVE CONNECTION? George Brown

[JANICELEEDALE]

  Hello lovely people, I have come across this problem so many times and still don't know how to prove the connection. I am waiting for my dna outcome so that will help buttttt....

One such person is George Brown, What I can prove is:

Violet Evemy Brown
1881–1964
Birth 5 JUN 1881 OR ABT 1882 • Leamington Warwickshire England
Death 20 FEB 1964 • Brisbane Queensland Australia

PARENTS WERE

FATHER -  James Brown, 1850–
Birth ABT 1850 • Ellingham, Northumberland, England (Tinley)
Death Liverpool, Lancashire, England

MOTHER - Emily Evemy Miss, 1845–1918
Birth TUESDAY 10TH JUNE 1845- 1847 • Salisbury, Wiltshire, England
Death DEC 1918 • Mere, Wiltshire, England

JAMES' PARENTS WERE

FATHER - George Brown, 1825–1901
Birth 15 MAR 1825 • Dunbar, Dunbartonshire, Scotland
Death JUN 1901 • Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England

MOTHER - Margaret Lidgerwood, 1826–
Birth ABT. 1826 • Yetholm, Roxburghshire, Scotland
Death Unknown

NOW I GET INTO UNPROVABLE WATERS

George's father is also called George and all I can prove is:

George Brown - 1801–1868
Birth ABT 1801 • Scotland
Death 15 SEPT 1868 • Cairncross Farm, Coldingham, Berwickshire

1st George's MOTHER IS - (I believe - i says this because the name Christian and variations go down the line)
Christian Ramsay, 1798–1863
Birth 4 APRIL 1798 • Linton,East lothian
Death 1863 • Foulden, Berwickshire, Scotland
4th great-grandmother

HOW CAN I PROVE 2ND George's parents?

Thank you for your help in advance.

Janice from Aus

[Wendy2305]

Hi have you a copy of their death certs
Do the occupation of Christian husband match Georges
What about the addresses of where they died do they match other family members
Have you found them in the 1861 census
Lastly who is the informant on the deaths

[BushInn1746]

Hi Janice

For me there are too many "About"s in your question ...

"Birth 5 JUN 1881 OR ABT 1882 • Leamington Warwickshire England "

and 1881 with a common and popular surname like BROWN and I wonder (like the previous reply) if you have ALL the General Register Office (GRO) CIVIL CERTIFICATES which go back to 1837 in England and Wales, from our General Register Office (either Certified Copies posted or the official pdfs of the copies), AND with the ALL the images of your family in the England and Wales CENSUS SHEETS as you work backward?

Provided there is/are no illegitimate births and the Census is complete for the areas of your Ancestors, then you should generally know your Ancestors in England as you work backward, using the official Certificates along with England & Wales Census Sheets (every 10 years from 1911 or when they appear, back to 1841).

Hopefully, you have your official copy in Australia of where your known English Ancestor was definitely born, the birth date and birth place, perhaps Mother's nee surname, in the UK? Then applying for the correct Birth Certificate, which should confirm the birth date, the nee surname and hopefully then give the Father's full name.

The best way to do it, is to confirm every step, or stage backward!

My Father knew his Father's, Mother's and Grandfather's full names and wife's first name, so I applied for my Great Grandfather's Death & Marriage Certificates (and he was born about 1884 -/+ 1 year), but not quite early enough, to get backward to the first 1881 Census, (available when I started).

I had to chance, applying for my Gt. Grandfather's Birth Certificate based on Death Certificate age and then cross check the suspected married parents with Local Authority (L.A.) Registers and Rates Books, following the family back and forth each year over two adjoining counties, for about 30 years and when my known Great Grandfather came of age he appeared with his parents AND matched or overlapped with possible older Brothers and Sisters still at home, in the suspected family.

I could now identify my suspected family in the 1881 Census, despite my Gt. Grandfather not being born until 1884 and double check the others in the house who had come of age in the L.A. Books, were his older Brothers and Sisters by applying for their pre 1881 Birth Certificates.

Then I decided to trace and attempt to contact a known Cousin of my Father's, who actually sent me a photocopy of an old 1875 Family Birth Certificate, so that was corroboration of the research..

It is a question of methodically working backward and occasionally forward, double checking with any other records.

Don't forget UK population was probably larger in our 19th Century Towns, compared with other places around the World and there could be numerous Browns in the same town or area too.

Once you get to Scotland, one place to get your Certificates is Scotlands People.

You may also find relatives in the Census, residing in the property, like Father, Mother Cousins, Grandchildren, Step children, or In-Laws, to the Head, so get every correct Census image, which all help to make your tree belt and braces if you apply for their Certificates.

Baptisms
My family above had about half of their six children baptised and the last ones were not. However, all six Births were Civil Registered.

Newspapers if Ancestors are in business (but not everyone pays for Birth, Marriage, or Death insertion in the Notices, or in Street Directories) and Wills, provided they left a Will and it went to Probate.

People are running off to do this DNA as though it is a golden panacea, but if a tree so far has just one error, or not confirmed, one can easily find themselves on the wrong line and your DNA may not help, or not help at all.

It is a question of working backward methodically, one step / one Certificate at a time, searching the GRO indexes (free BMD and GRO), applying for Certificates, cross referencing with the ALL available Census Images and Wills if any, Electoral Registers (to appear in earlier English Election Rolls you had to be a property owner to vote) etc. and ask do the Certificates match up with Census, if not, why not, does it say Widower or Widow on their Marriage, meaning previous marriage/s?

Mark

[Wendy2305]

Also registration started in Scotland in 1855 anything prior to that can be difficult to prove as not all BMD's were recorded or have survived I believe I read somewhere that approx. only one third of the BMD were recorded or have survived

[Ruskie]

Good advice by Mark and Wendy.

The first thing that struck me was that you say that James Brown b 1850 died in Liverpool, though you don't have a date or even a year for him. 

How do you know that his father was George? You say that James is born "about" 1850 which implies you do not have his birth certificate. How do you know who his parents are?

Just be careful with all those Browns as a mix up would be very easy. Sorry to say that it will be a miracle if your DNA test helps. A few people have some success, but if your surname is Brown and your Browns stayed in the UK, be prepared to be disappointed. Presumably you have taken an autosomal (Familyfinder) test, in which case you will get results for both your maternal and paternal branches which makes it difficult to determine which match is for which branch of your family  (added confusion).

Finally, if your tree does lead to Scotland, buy some credits from Scotlands People and purchase the appropriate certificates. Even pre 1855 entries can sometimes help in the search though often parents and other details may not be given. Familysearch has some decent covereage of Scottish records for some areas.

It could be worth going back to double check your facts. For example Violet died in Qld and her parents are named as James Brown and Emily Evemy? Do you have James and Emily's marriage certificate? If they married in England it will give names and occupations of their fathers. From this you look for the families in the censuses. Do you have Violet in any census with her parents?

Let us know if you need any help or opinions or double checking ... 

[Millmoor]

Wills are often of great value - have you seen this record?

George Brown Date  27/9/1869 formerly farm steward at Foulden Newton,thereafter residing at Cairncross co Berwick - Inventory and general disposition and settlement - Duns Sheriff Court.

Do you have the marriage cert. for George Brown and Margaret Lidgertwood - seems to have been in Belford RD in 1850. This would give father's name and occupation.Witness names might also help.

An interesting question is the extent to which we ever "prove" a connection. I tend to look at it more as a matter of the balance of probabilities and try to gather information from as many different sources as possible. It might be worth seeking out some of the articles about the genealogical proof standard on e.g Familysearch - I think there was a thread on this not too long ago.

William

[majm]

Some excellent advice from everyone. 


It is up to you to decide what 'proof' you want to set for your research, and it may well vary depending on when/where/who/what you are researching.. So if you have a marriage certificate from Queensland BDM there is much more detail than one from England.  And a NSW birth cert has details about the baby's parents eg where were they born, married etc.. 

If researching a popular surname you need to 'hasten slowly' and share concerns for 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinion.

RChatters will try to help each step along the way BUT it is up to you to determine when YOU have decided person ABC is your ancestor or to elimminate her/him or to set them aside in your PENDING folder.

JM

[Ruskie]

Janice, do you have this marriage certificate?

Marriages
Jun 1876 
Brown James   Birmingham   6d 298   
EVEMY Emily   Birmingham   6d 298    

If not, it might be wise to purchase it to ensure you are on the right track - it should tell you the father's names and occupations.

Added: Emily was fairly old to be marrying in 1876 at the age of 31. Do you have this birth certificate to check that father's name is the same on both birth and marriage certificates?
Births
Sep 1845
Evemy Emily Salisbury 8 392

Added: Looking at a couple of censuses it seems that Emily's parents are George and Caroline - George dies between about 1855 and 1861 as Caroline is a widow in the '61 census.

There are hundreds of births for James Browns between 1849 and 1851. There are a handful in Northumberland. How do you know that your James was born in Northumberland?

[Ruskie]

I have found the James Brown who I think is yours on the 1851 census with parents George and Margaret, both born in Scotland.

(There are other James Browns born in Northumberland as well, so you need to be certain that George is the father of your James.)

The 1851 census was taken on the night of March 30th 1851. James is said to be "4 months" old and born "Ellingham", which means a birth about November 1850. With that in mind this may be his birth:
Births Dec 1850   
Brown James Belford 25   254
(Belford district covers Ellingham).