Help/suggestions please to find death: Dinah RONSON nee Bell b 1841 at Maryport

[This Boy]

Thanks again Geoff 

I think Milliepede has successfully eliminated Isaac and Dinah Hodgson from my investigation.

I am beginning to wonder if Mr Ronson bumped Dinah off and buried her under the patio if they had such things in late Victorian Carlisle!

[josey]

Did you mean cohabitation WITHOUT marriage?

Yes of course - slip of the finger..

Maybe Dinah changed her name completely if she started a new life for herself - would make her impossible to find.

Do you know who the informant was on Mary Ann's death cert? If NOT Dinah, she may have disappeared before that.

[Ladyhawk]

I don't know if this is right 1841 but Maryport

Thomas Bell 35
Ann 35
Hannah 15
Elizabeth 11
William 9 months

There's a Thomas Bell who is 40 dies in 1844 which would leave Ann free to remarry but just speculation.

Thomas' occ is a Grocer, Hannah & Elizabeth both noted as not born in this county whereas
Wm  9 months old is noted as born in this county but I can't find a match for William on GRO indexes with same mmn as Dinah 

On the same 1841 census as the Bell family
below name of Wm Bell 9 months
are following
Mary Armstrong 15
Robert ditto 15
John ditto 11
George ditto 9
William ditto 7 All born in this county
//
1841c https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M73X-S3T

familysearch.org have the following

02 Oct 1839 St. Mary's, Carlisle, Cumberland
Thomas Bell Father Caleb Bell to Ann Armstrong
Doesn’t give Ann’s father’s name or indicate if either are widowed

Wondering about these entries
Elizabeth Bell bp Northumberland 25 May 1828
Hannah Bell bp. Durham 19 Feb 1826
Parents Thomas Bell & Thomasin

and possible marriage
29 August 1825 St. Shields, Durham
Thomas Bell to Thomasine Dixon

Family search have these three Maryport Cumberland baptism entries
Parents named as Thomas BELL & Ann - perhaps someone has access to the records
and will be able to provide details of father's occupation and their address

Dinah 29 May 1842, Thomas 28 May 1842, Tom 23 August 1840

This seems a match for Dinah's birth entry (posted previously)
Dinah BELL  mmn  NICHOLASON     
1842  J Quarter in COCKERMOUTH  Volume 25  Page 88
   
Not seeing GRO birth entries with mmn Nicholason or variant for Thomas/Tom Bell though 

However there is this one for Tom Bell Sept. qtr 1840 - maybe a completely different family 

Tom BELL mmn ARMSTRONG    
1840  S Quarter in COCKERMOUTH  Volume 25  Page 89   

Do you have Dinah Bell's marriage cert. confirming her father's name and his occupation?

If Dinah Ronson has died her record is pretty elusive 

I couldn't find a Joseph Seward/Ann Bell marriage either for info. this appears to be
Joseph with his first wife Mary on 1841c

HO107; Piece: 176; Civil Parish: St Mary Cumberland; ED 3a; Page: 37
Joseph Seward 55 Shoe M
Mary 50

This looks to be her death

Mary SEWARD age 58     
1848  M Quarter in CARLISLE  Volume 25  Page 58   

[This Boy]

Thank you so much,

Josey - No. I don't have the death certificate for Mary Ann but, if I cannot crack this in any other way soon - and I doubt I will - then I shall be ordering it.

Ladyhawk - thank you so much for all that information. I need to get my head round all that and understand what it all means. Regarding the 1859 Marriage certificate of John and Dinah? No, the same applies as with Mary Ann's death certificate. I do not have it. I think I will be ordering this certificate too.

My thoughts today are that Dinah probably did die sometime between the 1861 census and the 1881 when John is listed as a widow. Most likely I think is after 1871 when he was listed as married albeit with his parents but with no sign of Dinah. The death certificate for Mary Ann might help narrow down those dates.

After looking closely at all Ladyhawks information I will then pursue all leads including ordering the two certificates and maybe look at cemetery records for Dalston which I believe changed in 1864 when the church yard was full save for reserved family plots.

[Ladyhawk]

I don't have the death certificate for Mary Ann but, if I cannot crack this in any other way soon - and I doubt I will - then I shall be ordering it.

For info.
Not sure if you are aware you can order the birth/death certificates online from the GRO
in PDF format each PDF costs £6 - see link below
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp

If you do order d/c please come back and let us know how you got on 

[Milliepede]

Yes I second that, please do let us know any further details in case we can help further 

[This Boy]

To start with I am ordering the death certificate today using the £6 pdf option. Thanks again.

Of course, I think it is VERY important to come back to everyone who has kindly shown an interest and helped me. So, yes, as soon as I have the certificate I will be posting the outcome.

Fingers crossed.

[This Boy]

I now have the death certificate for Mary Ann.........



Unfortunately, while it helps in one way by elimination of one line of enquiry and provides some peripheral information, I was disappointed to find no mention of her mum Dinah on the certificate.

So, Mary Ann died on 23rd August 1864 at Willow Holme. The death is registered in Carlisle St Mary's. She is recorded as the daughter of John Ronson, a cotton weaver. Cause of death is 'Disease of the Brain Certified' The informant is John Ronson of Willow Holme, Carlisle, present at the death. It was registered on 24th August 1864.

I don't suppose that rules Dinah in or out as still being resident with John at the time.

Time for me to study, absorb, understand and probe all that information that Ladyhawk kindly provided.

Also, I wonder if Cemetery records may help me. I see that Willow Holme is on the outskirts of Carlisle about 5 miles North East of Dalston. Would the girl likely be buried in a churchyard/cemetery more local to the place of death or in Dalston where the wider family were very well established and where John was to later return?

[Milliepede]

Oh not too helpful then    So her father was present at the death not her mother but as you say it doesn't really prove if Dinah was still around or not. 

I imagine she would be buried in the area she died.  Perhaps local knowledge of churches/cemeteries around at that time would give us somewhere to contact.