Author Topic: Help finding Sharkey/Szarka/Szarke Polish Jewish Ancestors  (Read 762 times)

Offline Alex Sharkey

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Help finding Sharkey/Szarka/Szarke Polish Jewish Ancestors
« on: Monday 12 March 18 11:44 GMT (UK) »
Thanks to the fantastic JustinL in this thread here I have now found out I have a more considerable Jewish family than previous thought.

(previous thread link: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=788372.45)

Now my next step is tracing their roots however I will need some help going through Jewish/Polish or any eastern european records as I believe I have reached the end of what Ancestry can give me and I would like to see how far back the family goes and what the origin of the name Sharkey which is NOT attached to the O'Sharkey's or O'Searcaigh's of Ireland.

Attached is the family tree as far as we've been able to find out. Cyril Sharkey is my paternal grandfather. Morris's Yiddish/Hebrew name (as far as JustinL has told me) was possibly Mojse/Mosheh-Jozef and I presume was given the name Morris Sharkey when he immigrated to the UK in the late 1800s.

Morris came over with his wife Betsey and children Sarah and Jane. Betsey died in April 1903 and Morris remarried Minnie Ketcherowitz soon after (spelling unsure as she was illiterate) who came over from Odessa Ukraine sometime in the early 1900s. They had two children, Louis and David (my great-grandfather).

Now the big secret with Morris is that he had two other families, one in Scotland and one in America, neither I have been able to trace. The family in scotland has one descendant called Hugh but other than that I have no other information. The american family I am aware of a woman called Kittie who had a daughter in the WAAC (who I have messaged for information) and they kept the name Sharkey.

With regards to Morris/Mosheh's family I am keen to find his parents and any record of their lineage in order to trace the Sharkey name, I know from the 1901 census he was (or claimed) to be born in Poland possibly Warsaw but no other information than that. His marriage record to Minnie claims his fathers name was Louis/Lewis and is deceased by then (1903).

Betsey I have no information on other than her two births (Jane and Sarah), no maiden name or marriage record. Nothing i can find on TheUS Jewish marriage records under than name either.

Minnie is an enigma, due to her illiteracy I cannot find a proper spelling of her surname (I've found Katcherovitz, Kutcherowitz etc). I know she came from a Cossack village in the Ukraine and immigrated to England when her father was kicked out of the village, no idea what happened to him other than from her marriage record where she claims the name is Isaac. I know she died sometime in 1946-1948 but cannot find her death record anywhere.

Jane is also a bit untraceable, she came over with Betsey, Morris and Sarah and appears on the census and a few school records, but after that she goes missing. No death record or appearance anywhere. Sarah Sharkey I have found and am happy where she ended up.

Morris had a brother Abraham with a family of his own but as yet I've not looked too deeply into his family.

This is a bit of an ask but if anyone who is fluent in Polish/Russian/Hebrew/Yiddish can have a search around records and see what they can find. I can only thank JustinL so much for his continued help (even if I did keep him up late in the night looking at family records).


Edit cont.

The other side of my family is from David Sharkey's wife, Rose who died shortly after WW2. Her family was the Rosenblatts and came over around about the same time but settled up in Manchester. Again I am missing information on her parents who apparently died early 1910s if anything can be found on them.

Ancestry is a brilliant resource up to a point where you have to change from a language you know.

Image removed as requested.

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Offline JustinL

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Re: Help finding Sharkey/Szarka/Szarke Polish Jewish Ancestors
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 14 March 18 06:38 GMT (UK) »
Hello Alex,

Are you getting to grips with all these new languages?

Firstly, you should remove the family tree from the bottom of your post. Publication of information relating to living people contravenes RC rules.

I would urge you very strongly to join the Warszawa Research Group on JewishGen and take a careful look at this webpage http://jri-poland.org/town/warszawa.htm You'll gain invaluable knowledge from other experienced researchers.

Unfortunately, separate registers were maintained for each of Warsaw's 12 registration districts and there were no overarching indexes. It would clearly be hugely advantageous if you were somehow able to narrow the search a one or two districts.

As for the original surname, it may have been SZAK. This is the Polish spelling and is pronounced shaak, i.e. with a long 'a' as in father. There were definitely Jewish families with this surname, and I recently discovered that Polish names are inflected, i.e. the endings change depending on the case. You might find this interesting http://www.halgal.com/langofrecord.html

You might be looking for a record reading "Moszek, syn Laiba Szaka" = Moszek, son of Laib Szak.

I would be interested to know more about Morris's other families to see if they can be traced.

Minnie might not have been illiterate, merely unable to write in English; her Yiddish and Russian/Ukrainian could have been perfect. As for the 'correct' spelling of her name, you need to appreciate that you are dealing with different alphabets and the inherent complexities of Romanisation, i.e. transliterating from one language that does not use our Roman script, e.g. Yiddish, Hebrew and Russian, into that Roman script. You have to get a feel for the sound of the name, not a single fixed spelling.

Moving to the Sharkey/Rosenblatt union, I am guessing that you do not have the marriage certificate. You should order that immediately. According to the death registration, Rose was 45 when she died in 1948.

Justin

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Offline Alex Sharkey

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Re: Help finding Sharkey/Szarka/Szarke Polish Jewish Ancestors
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 14 March 18 08:02 GMT (UK) »
Hi thanks. I don't think i can remove it now but if a moderator wants to unattach it I'm happy with that.

To be honest I've not looked too much into it, I started looking into Hebrew and Russian but learning other languages is not my strong trait (even programming I have trouble with).

I will look into getting Rose's marriage certificate next month when the next paycheque comes in. I've ordered a lot of certificates this month so I need to stagger it a bit.

As for district of origin, I have no information other than Polish Sub, Russia. I had a listing on my Ancestry for Sarah Sharkey (one of Morris's daughters) coming from Warsaw, Mazowieckie, Poland but I can't find where i found that information, it's not on any of the records that I've found.

For Morris's other families, the story I was told is that he would often leave home and make his way across country and come home many months later, poor and hungry with no shoes on his feet (funny considering he was a shoemaker too). The rumour is that he went to scotland on business and married a women up there. Our family has tried to make contact with the scottish Sharkeys (we found a Hugh who looks exactly like my father) but they didn't want to know, possibly because of Morris's bigomist past.

I know he went to America sometime after marrying Minnie, as he does not appear on the 1911 Census and I found a travel record of his going to America (I also found Naturalisation documents for a Morris Scharky but I don't think it's the same person). As for Kittie (again a name I was given) I know nothing, other than she had a daughter in the WAAC during WW2 and that they took the Sharkey name.

There are two Rose Sharkey's who died late 1940s, one was David's Wife and the other was Abrahams. Weirdly I have not found any trace of Minnie's death nor what happened to Jane.

Offline JustinL

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Re: Help finding Sharkey/Szarka/Szarke Polish Jewish Ancestors
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 14 March 18 09:50 GMT (UK) »
Hi Alex,

Click on the 'Modify' button next to your original post and change anything you like.

If you at least gain the ability to read names, relationships and dates in Hebrew/Yiddish, Polish and Russian, it will be of great value.

The following records point to the city of Warsaw being the home of the Sharkey families in the latter part of the 19th century:~

1. The marriage authorisation of 1903 - Morris's place of origin = Warsaw
2. 1911 census for Sarah Gamson (born Sharkey) gives Warsaw as her place of birth
3. Passport application and naturalisation papers for Morris's nephew, Lewis Sharkey, who settled in New York. He stated that he was born in Warsaw on 28 Apr 1895. Incidentally, this Lewis was recorded in the 1905 New York census with his uncle Meyer Nadel.

Mazowieckie is the modern day province in which Warsaw is located. In the 19th century, Warsaw was a governorate (gubernia) of the Russian Empire.

In 1946, a Minnie Sharkey married an Abraham Goldstein in Stepney. On 28 Dec. 1948, a 68-year-old Minnie Goldstein died in Stepney and was buried in the Enfield Jewish Cemetery.

It is not inconceivable that Minnie remarried in her later life. My own great-grandfather remarried in 1928 at the age of 75; he died in March 1929. My late father knew nothing of this second marriage.

In 1924 in Mile End, a Jane Sharkey married a Hyman Cohen. This could have been Morris's daughter or his niece (born in 1900) or an unrelated namesake.

Offline Alex Sharkey

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Re: Help finding Sharkey/Szarka/Szarke Polish Jewish Ancestors
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 14 March 18 10:03 GMT (UK) »
The modify button isn't available, i wonder if this is a timed feature.

Interesting about Lewis, I've not gone too far into Abraham's family yet other than a few people that might be his sons and daughters. One of those is a Jane, bit confusing when children share the same name (as well as Lewis being Morris's father too).

I did see the marriage of Minnie but wasn't too sure of it. I'll put it down to possible and go about ordering the death certificate.

Offline JustinL

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Re: Help finding Sharkey/Szarka/Szarke Polish Jewish Ancestors
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 14 March 18 11:08 GMT (UK) »
The modify button is always there, next to the quote button at the top right hand corner of one's own posts.

Because of the Jewish practice of naming children after deceased relatives, primarily parents and grandparents, you will often encounter cousins with the same name. I find it helps to use their father's name as a sort of middle name, e.g. Lewis Morris Sharkey, b. 1904 England, and Lewis Abraham Sharkey, b. 1895 Warsaw.

I wouldn't bother with the death cert at the moment as it won't provide much genealogical information. The marriage cert would be much more useful as it will name Minnie's father.

Offline Alex Sharkey

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Re: Help finding Sharkey/Szarka/Szarke Polish Jewish Ancestors
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 14 March 18 11:09 GMT (UK) »
Have a look, oddly not there for me.

Offline JustinL

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Re: Help finding Sharkey/Szarka/Szarke Polish Jewish Ancestors
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 14 March 18 14:42 GMT (UK) »
That is very odd. Try clicking on the 'Report to Moderator' link on the bottom right corner and see what the moderator has to say.


Offline JenB

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Re: Help finding Sharkey/Szarka/Szarke Polish Jewish Ancestors
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 14 March 18 14:46 GMT (UK) »
The modify button is only available for 24 hours after posting. After that you must contact a moderator.
The system was changed some time ago, to prevent people making furtive amendments to older postings which then sometimes made subsequent replies look at bit silly  :-X
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